Joy Beckerman takes a deep dive into hemp equipment with Derek Oxford from Total Grow Control. Derek is applying his years on experience in the oil refining business to hemp. He discusses how they provide free consulting to help companies understand the complexities of hemp so that they can confidently select the correct equipment for their application. Produced by PodCONX https://podconx.com/guests/derek-oxford
Joy Beckerman takes a deep dive into hemp equipment with Derek Oxford from Total Grow Control. Derek is applying his years on experience in the oil refining business to hemp. He discusses how they provide free consulting to help companies understand the complexities of hemp so that they can confidently select the correct equipment for their application.
https://podconx.com/guests/derek-oxford
Dan Humiston: [00:00:09] Welcome to another episode of Hemp Barons, I'm Dan Humiston. And on today's show, Joy takes us on a deep dive into some of the equipment necessary to grow and process Hemp with one of Hemp largest United States based. Growing an extraction manufacturer. Let's join Joy's conversation with Derek Oxford from Total Groh Controls.
Joy Beckerman: [00:00:39] Well, thank you for being with us on the show today. Derrick, welcome to Hemp there. Thank you. Thank you for having me.
Joy Beckerman: [00:00:44] Now you, Derek Oxford, what is your role at total bro technology?
Derek Oxford: [00:00:49] So I am the founder and the CEO, total growth control. We've been in this space roughly five years now.
Joy Beckerman: [00:01:00] And that's one of the reasons one of the many reasons why I was interested in having you on Hemp Barons. Unlike many of the fly by night or just popping up grow and processing equipment companies that are out there, total grow is quite established. So why don't you tell us a little bit about what you offer specifically in in the Hemp Industries?
Derek Oxford: [00:01:22] Yeah. So we came out of heavy industry. I actually came from Ashland Oil before I started the company. Our focus was always Control's process related. About five years ago, we identified the need to help cultivators.
Derek Oxford: [00:01:38] And one of the things we identified was they need the same level of sophistication that we would see in manufacturing, mainstream manufacturing, whether it's making a car or producing a product line for cosmetics or for alcohol production. At the end of the day, those companies and industries have been established. So they have highly sophisticated systems everywhere, from the production systems to the ERP systems to manage them. And we found that this industry was really missing it. So our goal was to to bring that same level of sophistication, both from a automation, but from a process standpoint to this industry to try to help it move along. And that I think we've done we've done quite well with us.
Joy Beckerman: [00:02:28] So and as I wanted to make sure that we sort of establish when we say this industry understand that the Hemp industries are human and animal nutrition, body care, pharmaceuticals, paper, textiles, building materials, bio composites, bio resins, industrial sealants, encodings, energy, supercapacitors fuel, nanotechnology, biomedical applications.
Joy Beckerman: [00:02:52] Dear Lord, somebody stop me here. So when you see this industry, let's get let's get real specific here about what the industry within Hemp that Togrow is assisting with. And what industry is that within? Hemp.
Derek Oxford: [00:03:06] I mean, the Hemp industry is vast and I think a lot of people forget the fact that when Henry Ford built the Rouge, he built it with Hemp in mind for many of the feedstocks that he needed to build a car, everything from the seats, the patents and some of the coatings that he wanted to have in cars. He always had Hemp in mind. So this is an industry that that for a while was pushed to the side, ignored or not acknowledged. And now it's coming back. And there's a tremendous amount of opportunity in this industry. And we're just a little bitty, tiny, tiny part of it. In our our goal is to help our cultivators and our processors bring that level of both automation and sophistication that all the rest of the industry has. Right. So we we try to help our cultivators.
Joy Beckerman: [00:03:59] So let me just ask you. Let me ask you again. So that so that I can really frame it for you and for the listeners here. And that's part of why the Industries Association in 1994. It's actually plural. So that's why I want to make sure that when we see the Hemp industry that that you if you could just answer this question for the listeners, which industry within Hemp is total grow? And I guess what I'm trying to get out of you here is to say, are we talking about hemp extract Hemp cannabinoids Hemp Turpin as opposed to all of these others. So when you say helping the cultivator and helping the processor cultivate what type of plant and process what type of products? Let's just focus on that for a minute.
[00:04:45] Absolutely. Yes. So let's back up. So from a cultivation point of view, our systems are designed to help control that the grow itself.
Derek Oxford: [00:04:58] So our system is designed to control the environment, the lighting, nutrient delivery to track how the plants are growing. So it gives the grower the ability to see the same data and dashboard and to have the same level controls that other groups have.
Joy Beckerman: [00:05:15] So then let me ask you this so we can again just get really specific and I'm so sorry here that that we're not getting down to it now.
Joy Beckerman: [00:05:23] So the only type of Hemp that is grown indoors is not Hemp for oilseed or fiber or grain or for fiber. The only type of Hemp that is grown indoors is Hemp that is. Known for what, Derek, what type of product?
Derek Oxford: [00:05:40] So are we we are customers that do it for several. So we have one customer that grows Hemp laws only for seeds and turns around and sells them back out to the market. We have another customer that grows Hemp only for flower indoors. So it depends on the customer and the location and we take that were the high level view of controlling that facility, right? We have we have several companies.
Joy Beckerman: [00:06:09] So so then I guess what I really want to make sure that the listeners understand and it's all about education here at Hemp Barons is that the only type of Hemp that is grown indoors in a greenhouse or some other indoor facility is not the hundreds of thousands of acres and millions of acres with regard to grain, which is that that beautiful nutrient dense superfood, the Hemp seed, the highest digestible from a protein or for fiber, that long, strong stock that we make so many industrial applications with. But certainly folks who are maintaining seeds in a breeding program are cultivating seeds for further propagation. Those are often done in in a greenhouse as well as outdoors. And then, of course, Hemp sown for cannabinoids are chirping for its extract.
Joy Beckerman: [00:07:01] So that's what I just wanted to make sure the listeners knew that this is a fairly narrow conversation on a huge industry, which is deriving all of the infrastructure for all of the use of all of these other parts of of that plant. So that's what I was trying to get to. And thank you. Now tell us tell us about your process.
Derek Oxford: [00:07:22] So, absolutely. So it's interesting you say that because that's that's actually how we think about the market and how it drives what we do.
Joy Beckerman: [00:07:33] The current Marcus, that you talk about a short, direct consumer. Right.
Derek Oxford: [00:07:38] They don't go these are processed these are Hemp cultivation facilities that are using to go in to make oils or abstracts or it's for seeds for further propagation or flower for smokable smokeable consumption.
Derek Oxford: [00:07:56] Right. And that's that's primarily our customer base.
Derek Oxford: [00:08:00] But the beauty of this is those margins that this industry allows helps us better develop systems for the ancillary markets that we see coming later for more Hemp processing and other types of markets. So right now, yes, our focus and most of our all of our customers are for flower, for Hemp that will be distracted to produce oils. And then last but not least, the ancillary to cloning and for seed propagation. And then and then the other side of our business is actually the extraction side. So we develop those extraction systems for CBD oil. So we we kind of touch both sides of it now.
Joy Beckerman: [00:08:47] Excellent. And what type of what do you see as as the preferred method of lighting for indoor headquarters or going for extract as opposed to cultivation? And then perhaps if you would share with us the preferred method or at least what you're seeing in terms of sales for extraction. We've so much debate over CO2 versus ethanol. And then, of course, the old school is there, like butane is still the best to preserve it all. And if you wash out all of the residual solvents, you're dead. So what are you seeing there at total growth of these choices?
Derek Oxford: [00:09:21] You know, it's it's interesting. You know, L.E.D. have made a very, very strong push onto the market. But we're still talking about cultivation. Right. Which still requires that human touch, that that human eye to see.
Derek Oxford: [00:09:38] And so we find now, even though L.E.D. have made a tremendous push, the economics of there from. From an energy saving standpoint, they're still fairly costly. And most all of the growers that we have usually do some type of hybrid system where they'll have h.p.'s is an l_e_d_. And that's how they kind of get the energy savings they want when they use the B-2s from the yesses. And most all of them are happy with this mix.
Derek Oxford: [00:10:11] So overall, we've seen both wirch just L.E.D. or just sage yesses, but in them for the most part, we believe the market is really leaning toward these hybrid systems.
Joy Beckerman: [00:10:23] And for indeed we're seeing a lot of the hybrid systems are getting getting the the optimal performance. And for the listeners who don't know what h.p.'s is. Could you enlighten them, sir?
Derek Oxford: [00:10:36] Yes, sure, sure. Those are high pressure sodium. Those are the most common methods for indoor cultivation of this market and say it's the Cannabis.
Derek Oxford: [00:10:47] And these two are very similar. So a lot of indoor cultivation for Hemp really looks toward the cannabis space.
Derek Oxford: [00:10:58] And there are many year track record of building indoor growing indoors on which direction they go. So that's that's the big driver.
Derek Oxford: [00:11:07] So a lot of a lot of the innovation that you see, a lot of the lighting choices you see a lot of the nutrient delivery you see is really was really a spin off of of indoor cannabis grows. And now his switch gears. Ta ta ta Hemp.
Joy Beckerman: [00:11:27] Indeed. It's pretty fascinating. How about some problems that you see in green houses that total grow can in fact, help to solve? What are some sort of common issues? You've got a lot of folks. When you get in on this opportunity. You know, retiring from their software or law careers to get into Hemp farming, but don't necessarily have the experience or the ability to see around corners like someone who has been doing this type of work for some time. We'd have the ability to do what are some problems, common problems that you're seeing and how does total grow heal that pain for folks?
Derek Oxford: [00:12:05] There's a bunch of common problems. So one of the one of the biggest ones is usually and it's funny you mentioned that the people that are retiring and we get we get a good bit of those where, hey, you know, I'm retiring, I've got this fun, we've got a group of us. We're gonna go build something.
Derek Oxford: [00:12:26] And right away that scares me because these are physicians, attorneys, software, people, like you said. And they have very little experience with this.
Derek Oxford: [00:12:37] And what we see coming out of the woodwork, a lot of it is what I call what they call their selves as master growers.
Derek Oxford: [00:12:45] Right. And they come out of the woodwork and they go talk to these people. And these people don't know any better and convince them that I'm a master grower of growing forever. Turns out the guy's been growing in his basement or his garage for the past 10 years. And he he he considers that his expertise in scaling up to the size of these systems is complex. And the size of these grows. And what we see happen a lot is they're led in directions by these guys that are so-called experts and they don't rely on the tools or don't use the tools that are out there to do it correctly. And there's there's tons of choices on how to control the environment, how to control lighting, how to control the entire cultivation facility. And first things we'll see is this master grow? It would normally be pretty apprehensive about how we don't want to bring technology in. We have to talk to the plants, but we also find that's the same guy that doesn't perform. And so the way total grow control really helps our customers are we have a platform that allows them to document and to put everything into one spot to control all those ancillary systems so that if that master grower doesn't perform, which we find almost 50 percent of the time he doesn't, or if he or she disappears or he's hung over or decides to be sick or or hold his owner hostage, which we see happen, you you still have a control system with all that information there.
Derek Oxford: [00:14:26] And a managers control system we call Eden. Eden is never hi's, never sick, is never on vacation. Eden's job is to take care the plants and at the end of the day, take care of the overall facility.
Derek Oxford: [00:14:41] So it's no longer it's no longer to the whim of this master grower that we see come out of the woodwork now. And that's one of the by far the biggest problems we see. The other one is there's just a tremendous amount of information. And it's not just us that sees us.
Derek Oxford: [00:14:57] You've probably got 10 plus high end lighting vendors that all say they're the best. You've got just as much controls, just as much in Azeez and in what we see.
Derek Oxford: [00:15:13] And this is across the board is it's very difficult to have everybody on a living levels playing field. Right. Because we start talking about how much light productions being given or how efficient and air conditioning is or how efficient the control system is. And we're not all talking the same language. So so there's there's a.
Derek Oxford: [00:15:35] Right down there, because there's no standardization across and even even goes all the way until the extraction and to the quality of the CBD because, you know, that's the other half of our business is we see. We see people talking about minors and we see people people talk about distraction and distraction of efficiencies and then their methodologies, whether it be hydrocarbon based or CO2 based or s on all this.
Derek Oxford: [00:16:02] And we we see these these claims that unfortunately are not standardized. And so it's very difficult for anybody getting into the industry to be able to identify the differences and really work through all these differences in order to find out what's best or what really has the claimed decision sees or gains as stated.
Derek Oxford: [00:16:31] And I think that's really, really one of our biggest challenges coming up, especially on the CVD production side.
Joy Beckerman: [00:16:38] Very much so. And I think with a lot of folks don't understand, and especially as the experienced folks trying to rightfully separate themselves in the marketplaces, no matter where you can have the greatest equipment in the world, the latest and greatest. But it's still part science, part art here. You've really got to have those experienced extractors there who understand the equipment and have such experience with it that they know how to preserve as much of that original profile as possible. And so and so we're in this talent, of course, is pretty valuable as this emerging industry exponentially takes root in this country. You probably saw the Gallup poll back in August of two thousand nineteen. So just a few short months ago in summertime. That said, one out of every seven Americans are using a CVD product. That's some 14 percent of the United States, pretty major. So you're getting a lot of phone calls. I'm assuming then total grow from folks who want in.
Derek Oxford: [00:17:43] Yeah, we have had a tremendous amount of calls now and my phone numbers actually made it out. So I get calls all the time and I I'll get calls from groups I've never heard of and they heard about. Our big thing right now is our THC remediation equipment is probably we fields one of the best solutions on the market just because it does no consumables. And it really does a good job of keeping, not destroying all the miners.
Derek Oxford: [00:18:14] And one of our biggest challenges is what I just said before was, is that is the vernacular, right, getting everybody on the same page.
Derek Oxford: [00:18:25] And we talk about the same thing, because when you start talking about a full spectrum and then some say it's a broad spectrum and we're talking we're talking about the CBD product that's going out to the the the packager, the end user. But there's there's still a little bit of deviation between what is that product and what does it really look like. And at what point is it to the level that we all agree is the common way to to describe it.
Derek Oxford: [00:18:58] So we think that's where the market needs to really be going next, is, you know, how do we get the same the same vernacular to explain that same cannabinoid that we want to make sure that the end user, when they're buying, they know exactly what they're getting.
Dan Humiston: [00:19:20] I want to take a quick break to thank you for listening to today's show as the exclusive Cannabis podcast network.
Dan Humiston: [00:19:26] We're constantly adding new Cannabis podcasts to support our industry's growth. And that's why we're so excited to welcome the Seed to Sound podcast to our network. The team at Seed Sound has produced over 50 Exciting and thought-provoking Cannabis podcasts. And now you can listen to all their previous episodes and all their new episodes and M.J. Blaze.com. So welcome seed to sound. And stay tuned for new exciting Cannabis podcast on the MJ Blues Cannabis Podcast Network.
Joy Beckerman: [00:20:05] So and so being on the same page as industry leaders, and that's what the US Hemp at 40 and folks can learn about in the U.S. Hemp authority, that org has created those first GMP standards for the Hemp that they carry suppliment food and cosmetics industry. And we have also created a Glossary and Inversion 2.0, which was just released. We created standardised definitions for a broad spectrum, full spectrum and isolate. Here's the challenge and we're having to put out version 2.1 because we released version 2.0. And that's made with, by the way, a huge technical committee from across multiple disciplines of Hemp across the United States that that put these these standards together for version 1.0 and 2.0. I it as vice president of the board and the board approves an assist with that technical committee drafting. But it's the technical committee that puts them together. And here's the challenges you're trying to create definitions that close loopholes for folks. We know there are exploitations happening, of course, in this industry, folks exploiting the consumer's ignorance, folks exploiting a lack of of a strict regulatory framework from the FDA, though we all agree that the FDA certainly does have a regulatory framework for the manufacturing, packaging, labeling and holding of dietary supplements, food and cosmetics. And anyone engaged in these industries needs to be following those, though there are some who are not. But I think that the bottom line is we're trying to close up loopholes so folks can not exploit this this industry without this strict framework while also trying to be fair to manufacturers. And so we're already pushing back on our own definition of full spectrum.
Joy Beckerman: [00:21:54] And so in version 2.1, it will be a revised definition. But it's it's a lot more complicated to come up with these standardized definitions. And so I think particularly when we're dealing with this this framework that doesn't really exist for purity, for potency, for labels warning specific to, you know, Hemp extract. So it's it's really fascinating. But we agree 110 percent. What does full spectrum mean on your label versus what does it mean on my label? What does broad spectrum mean? And in fact, many folks think, you know, broad spectrum means that it absolutely has been remediated of its THC. Yet we have seen spectrum's, we have seen extracts being advertised as broad spectrums that actually do have when pulled out to several decimal points, a detectable amount of THC. So it's quite a challenge here. And yet here we are putting one foot in front of the other. Working in tandem together and making it happen. And it's so great that Total Groh is such a part of it. How do you handle, by the way, the phone calls that you get? I think with most folks that are selling equipment or ingredients, supplies, you end up having to spend and as you know, sort of in the business of customer service and sales, there's really only so much time folks should be spending on a call. And yet folks are becoming little mini consultants, sales folks. How do you handle that at total pro? And folks really want their handheld. And you're not a consulting company. You sell equipment.
Derek Oxford: [00:23:29] Yeah. We actually take a different approach to us. We recognize that there are some tremendous challenges.
Derek Oxford: [00:23:39] There's there's a tremendous learning curve for people coming into the market. And we do a few things very different just because of that. Number one, call us. We're happy to sit down and talk through what we know. The first thing we will tell you is, listen, we're not a processor. We're not growers. We've done a bunch. We know how to build the equipment. We know most of the people want and we know what sales work. We're not going to tell you absolutely. This is how you grow something. But we're going to try to point you in the right direction. You're making a mistake. And the same thing applies on the processing side. So we do field the calls. We try to help the customer get moving the process, get moving in the right direction. We do a few things that a lot of people, probably even some people in my company disagree with. But if we don't bring value to that particular part of the project, like, for instance, lighting's you see, if you have a question on lighting, we're going to introduce you to the lighting experts. And we're just going to tell you, these are the guys we think are good and that's it.
Derek Oxford: [00:24:44] We step out of that part of the transaction because we don't bring you any value there. These are guys that we trust. They did a good job taking care of other customers. But we want you to do that. And we do that pretty much on anything. We don't bring value to write that. We can't really help you with. We try to push you with the experts. We do field the calls. And then once you move to a customer weekly holds, we hold your hand in a sense the entire way. We assign a project manager to every project. Big, small, medium. It doesn't matter. That's their responsibility to take care of you. It's their point of contact. We go on site to help ensure that they're comfortable, that the local disciplines are comfortable. And then and then when it's time to start up, we're on site right there with you. We feel the pains right there with you. We do the twelve, fifteen, 16 hour days right there with you to get you going to assure you're successful. So we absolutely attack this in a different way. We welcome the call. Amazing.
Joy Beckerman: [00:25:48] Chris, that alone, I would think, would get folks burning up those phone lines. That's some serious customer service that total grow offers. And it's absolutely what folks looking to get into this industry need for it. For Ellenwood getting into it ignorantly or not, they need that help. So, Chris, that's amazing to hear. You can talk a little bit more about your THC remediation and and maybe just tenia it out for the customers. I'm sorry. Setting it up for the listeners here. Matter of fact, I don't even want to subliminal there. We're just going to wait five seconds and I'll start that one again. Mr. Derrik. So can we talk a little bit more about your key, a key remediation equipment, such an important part of the supply chain right now and so that we can tee this up for the listeners. There is a piece of the Hemp extraction where we go from. We take a plant that has tested either at or below 0.3 percent THC as it was growing on a dry weight basis. We put it in the extracting equipment. And what comes out is this unrefined crude or unrefined Hemp oil that generally has spiked above in this in this raw, unrefined state spiked above 0.3 percent THC. And that THC needs to be remediated so that our full spectrum or spectrum prior that will will test within the legal limit of Hemp. So either at or below point 3 percent in those finished products. So meanwhile, there's a little piece of the process here where Hemp processors have in their possession a unrefined crude oil that contains a little bit greater than point 3 percent THC. And that's where THC remediation comes in. Explain how total growth solves that problem for folks.
Derek Oxford: [00:27:45] Sure. Sure. Thank you for tea. That one up for me, by the way. So you're absolutely right. So when when when processors are processing an abstracting that material, it was tested below. But inherently, when you attract the material and you go through distillation, the crude will inherently exceed the limit. That's just it's the sticky metric mass part of that. Right. So our methodology is, if you remember before I said I came for MASH on oil, but we started the company and most of all of my team came from petrochemical and refining. So what we did is we looked at the problem in the industry and just like we brought controls and we just like we brought that sophistication. We did the same thing. The first thing we did is try to understand what are the real volumes people are doing? What are the real choke points and what's the current best methodologies out there? So right away we could see that the average volumes on on a on a geographically centralized processor at total processor could be anywhere from a thousand liters a month to 30, 40 thousand liters of Moscow. But the largest choke point was usually THC remediation because most all of them use the same methodology, which is chromatography or chromatography is proven. It works well in the lab. It scales up, but it scales up. It doesn't scale very well.
Derek Oxford: [00:29:24] And it's very costly from an optics point of view, from from a consumable point of view. So we went back to to our refining and our search for chemical days and said, OK, well, how do we do this better? And we essentially took that knowledge base that we have. We went back and looked from our processing days and trying to understand how can we bring industrial scale solutions, scale down from heavy industry down to this market. And that's how we approach this. We didn't look at a lab scale and scaled it up. We took refining scale and scaled it down. So our methodology is very similar to what you would see in a refinery or an oil processing plant or a petrochemical plant. That methodology does not require consumables. Our methodology has a very high throughput. Our smallest system can handle point two five gallons per minute. And so with that in mind, we're able to remediate THC and keep most of the cabin and OLEDs intact. We're not destroying it in the process. So we don't really see any degradation. And part of that is really, really good heat controls and back in control. And other part of it is, you know, we were scaling down and redesigning petroleum equipment to match the needs of this market versus trying to scale up lab equipment. And that's really been our secret to success.
Joy Beckerman: [00:31:03] They're really fantastic offerings that you have for folks as a one stop shop. I would think for for a seed property in terms of equipment, for seed propagators and in indoor extract growers, particularly with the processing, particularly with the THC remediation equipment. How can of find you, Derek, if they want to get intensive for about.
Derek Oxford: [00:31:28] So the easiest way is to just go to our Web site, total Groh control dot com. There's a contact and they can fill out the forms or there's some phone numbers to get them to the right people. And we're you know, we're a full engineering suite as well. We we do design build. We also do operations as well. So we can take care of your operations, provide the manpower we're stance in every state in the country. So we're happy to help the customers do this as a as an entire project and help them through the process all the way through.
Joy Beckerman: [00:32:07] You know, derek, I don't want that to be lost on the listener. That's major supply, the manpower. You're in every state. Somebody wants to get involved with this from stems, too, from stem to stern. Total grow. We'll be there to assist them even with the labor, the design, the build, the equipment, the labor. And I find that the Web site just in general is a huge resources, information on multiple levels and great information on the site alone for those kicking tires and exploring.
Derek Oxford: [00:32:37] Well, thank you. Yeah, but we we thought that this is a fairly technical process. And while we do come out and train you, we do spend time with you. We thought it was really important to offer the manpower. So we will hire local engineers or local chemists to actually support you and be part of your staff to run the equipment, to advise you to check on everything, make sure it's running well. So we we did that because we think it's necessary. If I had to think ahead, I think in the market that will change as groups get bigger and more sophisticated. But right now, we think it's the need. And so we we offer.
Joy Beckerman: [00:33:15] And that's exactly what I mean by putting one foot in front of the other and working in tandem together to really build this Hemp economy. And that's what it's taking. It's taking all kinds of creative solutions and motivated. So for a really dedicated like you, Garik, it's been a real pleasure having you on.
Joy Beckerman: [00:33:32] Hemp Barons today I'm wishing all the success in the world for total grow and for all of the customers that it serves such a pleasure to be building the Hemp economy with people like you.
Derek Oxford: [00:33:42] Thank you very much. Thanks for having me. Pleasure. Enjoy your Christmas. Thank you. You too. Well done.
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