Bija Hemp is a Colorado-grown company which discovers and procures the highest quality hemp varieties from around the world and match them to specific purposes, allowing industrial hemp to take root in North America and the Western Hemisphere. Tom Dermody VP of Strategic Development joins Joy Beckerman to discuss the reemergence of industrial hemp as a stable crop for our modern US agricultural system. Produced by PodCONX https://podconx.com/guests/tom-dermody
Bija Hemp is a Colorado-grown company which discovers and procures the highest quality hemp varieties from around the world and match them to specific purposes, allowing industrial hemp to take root in North America and the Western Hemisphere. Tom Dermody VP of Strategic Development joins Joy Beckerman to discuss the reemergence of industrial hemp as a stable crop for our modern US agricultural system.
https://podconx.com/guests/tom-dermody
Dan Humiston: [00:00:08] Welcome to another episode of Hemp Barons. Our guest on today's show has been instrumental in helping to usher in the reemergence of industrial hemp as a stable crop for our moderate agricultural systems. His understanding and dedication to the plant is fostering economic development and helping agricultural communities rebuild their economies. Let's join Joy's conversation with Tom Dermody from International Hemp Solutions.
Joy Beckerman: [00:00:41] Well, hello, Tom, welcome to Hemp Barons. Thank you for being with us today.
Tom Dermody: [00:00:45] It's a pleasure. Thanks for having me.
Joy Beckerman: [00:00:46] Well, I have known you for some years now. You are one of my favorite intellectuals and advocates in the Hemp movement, United States, North America and globally. Your command over the complexities in almost every aspect of this plant. What legal, regulatory and particularly as it relates to seed and common sense regulation is almost unmatched. So impressive. And it's always a deep honor and a great pleasure to speak with you. And you're here today, and I hope you'll tell us a lot about what you're involved with. But you're here today with regards to Bija Hemp. Can you tell us a little bit about bija Hemp and how it came to be?
Tom Dermody: [00:01:29] Absolutely. So Bija Hemp is a Colorado based company focused exclusively on offering certified seed to the emerging industrial hemp industry. We got our start in 2015 as his first compliance importer of viable Hemp planting seeds into the state of Colorado, which has flourished into our ability to domesticate seed production and in turn service.
Tom Dermody: [00:02:00] The eccentral planting needs a row crop style Hemp farber's here in the US, though we are fortunate. In the last four years we have grown into a global brand and service planting seeds in Europe, North America, South America and in 2020 we're beginning the process of servicing Australia as well beyond the run of the mill planting seed. We also are very fortunate to play an active role in the development of new lines of industrial hemp that as we grow, our company will enter into the market to service the demand needs specifically of the grain and fiber markets, or use the word industrial materials where that fiber that really conveys the value of that plant more, more fully. Right now, we service about 13 states in the U.S. and in total about six countries worldwide.
Joy Beckerman: [00:02:59] And I find it so interesting, of course, using this term interchangeably as you discuss the nuance of of describing fiber varieties as industrial materials or industrial uses. The same could be said for the oilseed variety if we chose not to use the word grain, because, of course, we're talking for oilseed, industrial sealants, encodings as an additive for very many industrial purposes. And while, of course, we don't want to use the valuable Hemp seed for fuel, we would much prefer to use of the methane resources or ethanol resources that that valuable plant can give us. We certainly could make biodiesel and have made biodiesel. And people are making it now out of that out of that scene. So it's interesting, as we move forward, are we going to say oil seed and fiber? Are we going say grain and fiber or are we going to say human ingestion and industrial or ingestion for animals in industrial? So interesting. But I wanted to also just back up and and you're such a great educator, Tom, and we discuss it on this show very often, this issue of genetics and seeds, because there's a lot of.
Joy Beckerman: [00:04:12] Of course, this consciousness of extracts varieties which are new to us in Hemp, relatively new. Right. In the last six years or so, we we've worked so hard as an industry, as a crop around the world to basically breed the resin and the THC, the intoxicating component of the Cannabis plants out of these Hemp varieties, these oil seed grain and an industrial fiber varieties of Hemp. And then in about in the last six years, we've worked very, very hard to try to breed the resin back into the plant for the non intoxicating cannabinoids that has so many general wellness and other health benefits that we're researching right now. And that, of course, has caused the THC issue. So can you give the listeners a little lesson on why? What is the certified pedigreed seed and why it is so important in the emerging hemp industries? And I'm adding a third part only because you're smart enough to handle it. And why is that a challenge given our various photo periods and climates here in the United States?
Tom Dermody: [00:05:18] That's a doozy, but I can't answer it now certified. See that the way I like to break it down is the replication of a known distinguishable variety for commercial use. So you have to go out and manage the production of a given locked so that the seed that results. Uniform for the grower. And this is a fundamental part of our our traditional agricultural system. The yield and resulting revenue potential of a standardized crop input is higher than that of what we traditionally refer to as heirloom varieties.
Tom Dermody: [00:05:59] It helps set standardization within a given commodity at a fundamental level, and that is entrusted to Departments of Agriculture in conjunction with the Association of Official Seed certifying agencies within a given state.
Tom Dermody: [00:06:17] And those have international counterparts all housed with under Istar, which is an international body concerning seed certification and validity of a given genetic now outside the United States. There are various degrees of a mandated certified seed because of the issues with THC. Be a little promiscuous, let's say in successive generations of Hemp it be well-documented that successive production lots will eventually lead to.
Tom Dermody: [00:06:56] Let's say that promiscuity with THC and that's why it's so critical considering the regulatory environment that operators have to face in having access to certified seed. Now, I think that the challenge is straight to your point. The experiment with commercializing the CBD has taken root in the United States, but the process that we actually develop, what a certified lot of seed does not have an equivalency in clonal or feminised seed propagation of industrial hemp at the moment. But let's hold that for a second, because there's a bigger fundamental issue to solve when talking about certified seed and that's owning the rights to actually multiply a given variety of seed.
Tom Dermody: [00:07:50] One of I think the most important aspects of the 2018 farm bill is clarifying the ability to seek plant variety protection or some sort of equivalency from an IP perspective. But you have to hold title to a variety and represent that for a certifying body before you could even start the process.
Tom Dermody: [00:08:18] And I think over the lot, you know, there is been this notion of preparing for this, especially with comparable breeding programs. But I also know it would like take the chance to say that this is in part thanks to the work of folks who are in the certified seed business, actively participating in the trial assessment and production schemes that are available presently to spur the interest in these war novel applications. Now, what makes this all so hard, Joy, of course, is we're coming out of the closet and there has never been a plant that has come off the schedule one and into the that's a normalized commodity system. So Hemp will be that that first trial and this the way that breeders treat nemesis, whether they're, you know, 20 years, a Cannabis experience or 20 years of professional development work in the more traditional agricultural industry, is them being able to produce a record that shows that that varieties stable, distinguishable and compliant with respect to THC, the office of Plant Viper Action is accepting applications at this time. There are probably over a dozen companies that all filed at this point.
Tom Dermody: [00:09:53] Those are subject to public records, so they're available online and made for a very interesting read in that breeders are assessing what the market is going to need in 2, 5, 10 years. And probably the most fundamental way of seeing how the market is translating its needs back to these breeders is by way of these pending applications. And predominantly what you see is folks patenting seed because that is arguably the easiest to get into the certified class.
Tom Dermody: [00:10:28] At the moment, though, I am very hopeful that more unique and ultimately appropriate certification methods. Clonal and trevin, I see, will become available in the next 18 to 36 months. Subject to funding. U.S.D.A., a position on this as well.
Joy Beckerman: [00:10:50] And it's so as you say, wow. Well, the PDP Plant Variety Protection Act is now just being opened up to him. It's true that these global certifying bodies, a ASQA that you mentioned, the Association of Official Seed Certifying Agency has been engaging in creating this scheme for some number of years now. I think time goes by so quickly these days, but I think it was all the way back in 2014 that they began to create those those schemes for a Oska and then the ECD, of course, the Organisation for Economic Community Development as well. And and I think also sort of to to just distill down a very rudimentary, rudimentary. What you said is we need agriculture runs. Generally speaking, commercial agriculture runs on unique, distinct and stable varieties of seeds. A farmer wants to get into a contract with a manufacturer for a very specific type of of a crop. Generally with the manufacturer wants to know before the seed is put into the ground that there's going to be a certain nutritional profile. Let's say if it's Hemp for for grain purposes or human consumption or a certain diameter of stock for another purpose. And then to sort of compare it with another crop. There are different types of strawberries for different types of corn and there are different types of tomatoes. That doesn't happen by magic or haphazard happenstance, nor is a farmer or a manufacturer taking a chance that the strawberries that will that that farmer will grow will meet the specifications of that manufacturers or sellers needs.
Joy Beckerman: [00:12:36] This is what you need. Distinct, stable varieties of of seeds are for agriculture. That's how business is done. And while we do have the certified pedigreed seeds for the oil seed and fiber varieties of Hemp in other parts of the world that were beautifully in other parts of the world, the issue bringing them into the United States is how will the different photo periods and climates and soils and farming techniques and all of those things affect the characteristics of those plants. When we grow them here and how will we be able to stabilise them? So and for the listeners out there, once a a seed has become unique, distinct and stable, it needs to be maintained in a breeding program to maintain those characteristics. So we always want to go back to that to that seed when when we haven't no ability to do that. So very interesting things. And what did you think, Tom, about the USDA interim final rule? Of course, in the USDA interim final rule that was filed in the Federal Register on October 30 first. There was no mention of a seed certification, 16 on any level. What did you think about that? And ultimately, what would you like to see for regulation in the United States with regard to serve certified seeds?
Tom Dermody: [00:14:03] For sure. And I think it's an important note that while the IFR does not directly comment on a mandate or preference or status certified seed, many of those provisions are ultimately found in place at the state level within what is commonly referred to as a state setout, where there are quality measures assigned to anyone that is selling cedar nursery products. And that is really where the hard work of how to integrate certified seed of any commodity takes place. Well, I think the other piece to USD credit in not mandating it is going back to the assumption that state members of a Oska and or USDA have recognized that there is a need to diversify certification classes, beating row crop style. We already have that. We need to develop a system for clonal and feminised seed. And where that is going to take place is by way of what's called a quality tag assessment conducted at a state level for state use only upon the success of that quality tag measure. Other state departments of Agriculture could replicate that system and so on. Choose to implement that because frankly, what kind of certification is out is dependent on what kind of Hemp you're going to grow. And I wouldn't say that. North Dakota needs to focus all its efforts on producing a feminised seed certification class when that particular portion of the country is more well-suited to grow it at broadacre row, crop style industrial hemp for grain and or industrial materials categories.
Tom Dermody: [00:15:59] Now that is the exact opposite is true of somewhere in the deep self. Like Florida, Georgia, for instance, south Texas, where the infrastructure to support him cultivation may lean more readily towards horticulture style Hemp or what we commonly referred to as high cannabinoid containing varieties. Presently. Now, I guess, you know, we're very fortunate because of our involvement in the certified seed business to see these things were coming. And we are very committed to the idea of certified seeds of what it means. And our position has been if and when there is a class of femm or clonal availability, we will be right there to support it because we see that as a key need of growers and in turn the downstream supply chain, because that reliability that you talked about is the only way that this industry is going to stand the test of time. Many commodities have failed at working out the basics very well. And frankly, in 20 20, I think both private operators and the USDA are just trying to work out the basics before we try to throw something new on there, like mandating certified seed or something to that effect.
Tom Dermody: [00:17:22] But again, the most fundamental piece and something that I'm frankly most excited about in 2020 is you see State Departments of Agriculture in conjunction with their House members coordinating the best trial systems that we've seen since the implementation of the 2014 Farm Bill. Some of them are a little heavy handed. For instance, the state of Missouri, Kentucky, as well as Florida have mandated that if you intend to sell seed or nursery products in these states, you shall submit that variety for formal testing. So the growers have the resources to evaluate a given variety in the out years 20, 21, etc. And then you've got something a little softer, though. So we've just paid here in Colorado for a number of years where it is a non mandated testing that allows a given variety to enter the certified class of seeds that, you know, there are no Colorado is probably the most well known, but I believe it's several other states will have a voluntary program come 2020 in anticipation of commercial opportunities. 2021.
Dan Humiston: [00:18:40] Attention Hemp farmers introducing advanced Hemp, the world's first Hemp specific fertilizing system designed to maximize yield and CBD production. Advance HAMP's team of twenty five p_h_d_.
Dan Humiston: [00:18:53] Plant scientists have been researching the plant for over 20 years and understand it better than anyone. Don't fail to meet your HAMP's unique needs like far too many farmers did last year for heavy yield of the high CBD. Hemp feed your crop advanced Hemp and you can order online and advanced Hemp wsj.com. That's advanced Hemp dot com. But don't wait because production is limited. So preorder now.
Joy Beckerman: [00:19:23] Now, when Washington state first legalized Hemp and of course, Washington legalized adult use cannabis in 2012 through an initiative of the people, the entire West Coast legalized adult use. Cannabis through initiatives of the people and medical as well because they have those mechanisms in place. Whereas it took another four years and I was a resident and and was very much involved in, of course, the advocacy and drafting in that movement at the time to legalize Hemp, which didn't happen until March of 2016 in that state. And I didn't plan its first legal hand-feed until June of 2017, long after the adult. Market had been well established. And it was very interesting because the Washington State Department of AG was insistent that only certified seeds be allowed in the state. That has since changed with subsequent legislation and many folks didn't understand. I'm getting to sort of a cultural misunderstanding slash cultural ideal around being able to have farmer save seeds and that this plant of all the seeds of all the plants on the whole planet Earth, this seed should be available to everyone and everyone should be able to grow it. And what what do you think? Washington state's thinking was at the time? And why would a Department of AG or State wish only to have certified seeds in their scheme? Their agricultural.
Tom Dermody: [00:21:02] Long term advocate of seed choice and the ability to maintain heirloom varieties? Well, before I got got Hemp, I'd submitted that.
Tom Dermody: [00:21:14] But I think the really hard part of all this joy is THC. And I'll get back to Washington State now. Initially, the certified seed mandate was a risk aversion tool, not so much for growers of Hemp, but for for marijuana vendors.
Tom Dermody: [00:21:33] I mean, you've got to your point, three years of tax revenue, job creation and ultimately the economic benefit that that brings to the communities where marijuana cultivation is legal, then Hemp, which kind of looks like marijuana, but you can do all these other amazing things shows up. And that's going to have somewhat of an uphill battle. Right. It's a it's a complementary crop. If you look at it the right way. But for folks who are growing marijuana, we all know the biggest thing they fear is pollen. And I think that ingrained interest is ultimately what's stifled and resulted in Washington Department of AG. They're the certified seed so that they could create some some comfort, indeed, cross-pollination was a major concern.
Joy Beckerman: [00:22:28] A hysterical concern in legal states. And it still is in many states. And it's not that it's not a legitimate concern. In fact, originally there was a nothing in the law with regard to really cross pollination specifically. The regulations came out and and there first started out to be a three mile buffer zone between the edge of a legal Hemp field and the edge of a legal marijuana field or even the edge of an indoor marijuana facility. The licensed facility, not because keep in mind, Washington residents who have medical cards are actually allowed to grow marijuana outside. And they if they're willing to be in it in a database, they can grow a couple of more plants outside that number with greatly reduced with the with the advent of adult use legalization, there used to be fifteen plants per medical patient. Then it was put down to four. And then if you're put in a database, you can grow it to sixth. And we certainly didn't want this cross pollination barrier. Hysterical concern to relate to just cardholder's. We fought very hard for the inclusion in those regs to say of licensed marijuana facilities. So there could be some order to this. And the hysteria, hysteria was so huge that even indoor marijuana facilities, because, of course, Washington is one of the few states that allows for adult use and medical marijuana licensed to be grown outside. In addition to those personal plants. But the hysteria was so big that folks said, oh, there's not a carbon filter strong enough to prevent some dastardly Hemp pollen from coming into my indoor grow facility. So. So it started out as a three mile barrier. It was then expanded the next year to four year, four miles from a from I believe by a senator who represents a district that has a vast majority of of legal adult use, Cannabis constituents.
Joy Beckerman: [00:24:40] And she asked for that for that barrier to be increased. And frankly, we were just thrilled that she wasn't saying 10 miles and only wanted it to be increased for one mile. The major problem that came besides that being a logistical nightmare of this ridiculous barrier was that the the Hemp farmer was not grandfathered in. The licensee of the marijuana program was was grandfathered in. So let's say that you drained your retirement income, borrowed money of equity from your home, maybe got a loan from your aging parents to invest in your in your dream Hemp farm. And you've got a thousand acre farm in Washington. You started growing Hemp investing in the emerging Hemp industries and that opportunity and building that economy in Washington state. And then a license marijuana grower comes in in that mile barrier and then the Hemp farmer. These were only annual licenses in the beginning, those to renew their license and it was denied because they're no longer eligible because their farm is within the four mile zone. Not the licensee, not the marijuana licensee who moved in and could move about the cabin anywhere they want within the state. But the Hemp farm. So it was really, really ridiculous. What are some things that you ran up against or observations around what was now temporary? It's not there anymore. That legislation has changed. But what are your thoughts around that sort of crazy development? Does as the revolution unfolded, I called it the weed wars.
Tom Dermody: [00:26:13] Are they still called the weed wars? But it is your second point is actually the really one that I think hits the nail on the head in terms of that ingrained interest that it's getting. And regulators are not generally scientists, too, in the fear of losing constituent support.
Tom Dermody: [00:26:32] That is, it was very clearly indicated in this preference for a marijuana cultivator as opposed to a hypothetical historical Hemp farmer. But the pollen issue is, you know, some cost prohibitive on behalf of the indoor grower.
Tom Dermody: [00:26:51] There certainly are means to mitigate pollen, even though Cannabis generally has one of the smallest grain sizes of any known plant in the world. That has been kind of a mute point since people had access to more professional a-trak services or otherwise. As an aside, though, pollen is a regionally appropriate risk. Meaning that specifically. Your relative humidity index is probably what the leading causes or limitations on whether you will be pollinated in a given growing area in the Mountain West. Things are exceedingly dry. Pollen like feral Hemp, for instance, travels very far and the availability of feral Hemp makes it even more challenging and cost-prohibitive to determine what is the source of a pollen intrusion, let's say. But places like the south where it's so cute in the middle of February, you may have a very limited window of pollen liability. So your related risk is much smaller. But these are the nuances that people need to understand in part is headed towards Pacific Northwest. And that's what we're talking about. We have shied away from doing business because we don't want a neighbor to be considered a bad neighbor because they got seed from us.
Tom Dermody: [00:28:22] And the availability of interest in CBD cultivation has pushed us elsewhere. For the time being, because we don't want to be the source of being a bad neighbor, and until we have the basic accurate nomics research to validate what is a buffer zone. I think it is highly inappropriate for state regulators to think that their scientists in this respect. That's why it's so critical to see institutions like Oregon State, Colorado State University, as well as Cornell stepping up to be the agronomic juggernauts that they have been for every other plant. That's every bit successful. It gives me a lot of hope in addressing this question, because when pollen comes up, it usually runs into a very long and somewhat boring conversation. How did you mitigate risk or how do you know this is the source? So to say. And from there, I think things usually get cold because people are more concerned about being seeded than the validity of where they got it from, which which I can totally understand as well. Because that's a tremendous amount of value.
Joy Beckerman: [00:29:33] And it's wonderful that the USDA has given a half million dollar grant to, I believe, University of Virginia to study cross pollination. In fact, that's what Washington very much wanted to do. Setups and pollen capturing devices was another reason for the certified seed. They thought, how are we going to be able to contribute to this conversation, to the collection of scientific data around pollen travel with Hemp? If we have so many varieties growing, at least if we had just certified varieties, that would help. So there were sort of these additional logical pieces, as illogical as some of them may have been, that went into that thinking. And so as we wrap up here, I'd love to get some of your predictions, Tom. And and they're based around this cross pollination issue. And I remember I had a big event. We had a screening of bringing it home way back in 2015 or so. And I had Andray at Herrman, my mentor and very, very close friend come from Manitoba, even though she's at Missouri, Joplin girl who left us for candidate in 2001 so she could be with the Hemp. And we just got somebody in the audience asked the cross pollination issue. And I remember Andrea saying, well, hey, maybe, maybe Washington just not a Hemp state. And I had a small heart attack. And I said, oh, she didn't just say that everybody. There's no way she just said that. And she said, well, well, Joy, you know, things might end up quite regional over a pollination and B, of course, infrastructure and manufacturing. What do you think? Do you think that ultimately if we just look at the United States instead of the global perspective as the Hemp economy emerges, how do you think it would settle out? And I know you're not a betting man, but if you might make a prediction, no one will hold you to today. How do you think it will settle out? Will this be? Will we have regions where more grain is happening and extract is happening here and industrial purposes here and marijuana here?
Tom Dermody: [00:31:33] What are your thoughts on that? Tom, I couldn't agree more with Andre's assessment because it is really two pieces.
Tom Dermody: [00:31:44] Crop diversification is ultimately one of the most critical things for us to address systemic problems in our in our agro economy. But it's equally important to recognize the need for diversification in Hemp because there are parts of the country that are better suited, whether from an academic or or marketplace standpoint, to grow certain types of Hemp. I don't necessarily know if where and how CVD is cultivated is something my tea leaves tell me at the moment, but as a must be a better management. The Hemp industry dry. Just littlies lose that either.
Tom Dermody: [00:32:29] But places like the south with cotton has a real keen interest in diversifying the new crop are more well suited to the production of industrial materials by way of industrial Hemp than that of trying to grow Christmas trees for four Seabee day.
Tom Dermody: [00:32:47] And the same is true of the Midwest, where Ferrall Hemp, thanks to its historical usage, is prevalent. That meaning that it's going to be again harder to produce high quality floral material where Cheryl Hemp is readily available.
Tom Dermody: [00:33:06] With that being said, I think the coasts, because of their proximity to major consumer bases and specialty crop markets, is better suited for CBD than that of the interior of the country, which I hope to see the most acreage growth to service the application of a green indoor dustier material sourced the industrial Hemp.
Tom Dermody: [00:33:31] But my let's say my my other prediction is something that that I don't hear many people talk about right now. Hemp seed has attained Graff's status or generally recognized as safe. That is having tremendous implications on the human consumption animal feeds market in particular, not only in this country but in countries around the world. Because once the US deems something Grasse, it's good to go in other countries. Just just to kind of put it plainly for a second. Now the other than that, the proliferation of grain applications for a second. Doesn't that show that there is a precedent that a portion of the Cannabis plant can attain Grasse status? And my prediction is that 2020 and beyond. People will be more forceful about that line of thinking with respect to other parts of the plan at present. The discussion centers around CBD, but more novel can happen. Highlights. Cannabis first talk, chirpy, etc. can use that precedent to get a leg up to where they haven't been able to kind of fit that notch.
Tom Dermody: [00:34:48] So to say in the last couple of years and then going back to this theme over the course of the podcast. But I think come twenty, twenty one and beyond, we will see this development of novel serve as a creation schemes that will reduce the risk of growers cultivating more Hemp and ultimately buyers of that crop. Feeling more confident in their purchase. And that is really where the long term value of I think starts to kick in. I look forward to seeing you then.
Joy Beckerman: [00:35:29] Thank you for all of that. Thank you for everything that you do for the Hemp movement. Everything that you understand and articulate and share and contribute to the Hemp movement. And I can't wait to just keep working with you and lock arm in arm as we move into the sunshine and really watch the unfolding of the delivering on the promise of the world's most versatile valuable crop. You're such a bright star in this community. Tom, thank you so much for being with us today.
Tom Dermody: [00:36:00] Enjoy. I'd be remiss if I didn't say thank you for the work that you've done to get us here.
Tom Dermody: [00:36:06] You know, it's always somebody I admire. And we're finally going to see what you've been talking about it for over 20 years in the not so distant future.
Joy Beckerman: [00:36:15] Thank you so much, brother. Until the next time you share, we'll be on again. Thank you. Thank you.
*IMPORTANT DISCLAIMER*
THIS IS AN AUTOMATED TRANSCRIPT AND THERE MAY BE INACCURATE AND OR INCORRECT COMPUTER TRANSLATIONS. DO NOT RELY ON THIS OR ANY TRANSCRIPT ON THE MJBULLS MEDIA WEBSITE.