Building material have an enormous, negative impact on the environment. As the worlds population grows the pollution caused by current construction material will be unsustainable. Dion Markgraaff from the US Hemp Building Association joins Joy Beckerman to explain how using hemp based building materials can help the world avoid this pending crisis. Produced by PodCONX https://podconx.com/guests/dion-markgraaff
Building material have an enormous, negative impact on the environment. As the worlds population grows the pollution caused by current construction material will be unsustainable. Dion Markgraaff from the US Hemp Building Association joins Joy Beckerman to explain how using hemp based building materials can help the world avoid this pending crisis.
https://podconx.com/guests/dion-markgraaff
Announcer: [00:00:08] Welcome to another episode of Hemp Barons. On today's show, Joy's guest shares stories from his incredible Hemp career from Amsterdam and San Diego and many points along the way. This true Hemp Pioneer is now a driving Hemp construction material force. He lays out a compelling argument why our future depends on the construction industry transitioning to Hemp based products. Let's join Joy's conversation with Deon Marc Graff from the U.S. Hemp Building Association.
Joy Beckerman: [00:00:46] Well, hello, Dion. Thank you for being with us on Hemp Barons today. Well, thanks for having me. It's very unusual.
Joy Beckerman: [00:00:52] We've certainly had some of the major pioneers, some of your close friends and colleagues over the last several decades, but it's a treat and an unusual one. And you certainly are a major pioneer who has been fighting for all forms of Cannabis in multiple countries on at least two continents for a number of decades. So currently, of course, your role is board of director and in fact, a major organizer and co-founder of the United States Hemp Building Association, U.S. Hemp Building Association. And as you know, Hemp Crete is near and dear to my heart. It's actually my favorite product of the thousands of products that we can make with its personal valuable plant. But as we do with everybody, and particularly when we have someone especially view in Hemp years, you've been around for 150 years. Please tell us what got you interested in Cannabis and Hemp to begin with.
Dion Markgraaff: [00:01:47] Well, I was in university and I was looking for a subject to write my senior thesis in political science on. And I discovered a little bit about Cannabis marijuana.
Dion Markgraaff: [00:02:06] And the more I looked into it, the more it was. And there was no paper close.
Dion Markgraaff: [00:02:13] And at the time, it was like the height of the drug war. So I thought a lot of it's just seemed politically odd and interesting.
Dion Markgraaff: [00:02:23] So the more I looked into it, just the more there was and, you know, check careers took. The emperor was no clothes that just came out and that sucked me in and that was the rest.
Dion Markgraaff: [00:02:35] This has been history like you and I, of course, and so many folks who really that was the platform, that was the impetus and the trajectory that changed our lives was, in fact, that book. And I believe that the first edition of Jack Harry's book, The Emperor's New Clothes, was published around nineteen eighty five. So that is and certainly that is sort of the height of the drug war. That's the period of time you're talking about in my right.
Dion Markgraaff: [00:02:58] Yeah. But just as you're alluding to, the second edition with Chris Conrad helped. It was really the you know, the better the one that sort of catapulted things.
Joy Beckerman: [00:03:13] Indeed. And that was the version that I got. Although what changed what changed my life was just getting a mere flyer of it with excerpts of the book of these facts about Hemp and that at a Grateful Dead show in 1990 and sort of that convergence of social justice, a sense of of justice in general and planetary healing converging and coming together and saying, wait, what? There's a solution here. And they've gone and criminalized the solution and it's safe. And it has this huge global history in United States history. What is going on? So you took that and you ran with it. Were you in the European Union at the time or were you here in the United States?
Dion Markgraaff: [00:03:52] Yeah, I was at San I just stayed and did my senior thesis in political science and history. You seen Hemp. And when I was doing my research, I had been and seen about Anser Damn. But I, you know, doing this research, I just, you know, looked in more how they were sort of the exception. And after school, I ended up going there and getting involved in the scene there, because a lot of people knew about, you know, smoking the plants that they didn't know about anything else.
Joy Beckerman: [00:04:32] And it was there that you found your way ultimately to. Am I right? Did you work at the Hemp Marijuana and Hash Museum at any point while you were living in Europe?
Dion Markgraaff: [00:04:41] Yes. So that's where I was at. I started there. And, you know, I basically was going back and forth to California and there started to be Hemp products.
Dion Markgraaff: [00:04:55] You know, hats and stuff like that. So I would bring them back and put them in that in the hash museum and everyone would be like, oh, can I buy that Hemp hat? I'd be like, no, that went on for a while. And then I was like, dang, I'm just going to open my own store and do this.
Dion Markgraaff: [00:05:14] So I opened the first store in Europe in nineteen ninety three and we kicked it off. I started in the high times Cannabis Cup in our shop. And so after that we became very popular quickly I'll say.
Joy Beckerman: [00:05:30] So it's amazing. The American, although Deon MCGRATH of course is your name is the Dutch name and it's folks who go in spell Bill. Understand that. So here you are, an American delivering Hemp textiles and Hemp. Products to Holland essentially in the in the early 90s. Is that what we're to understand?
Dion Markgraaff: [00:05:50] Yeah. And they did. There was a renaissance right at the same time, the Dutch starting to grow again. Which led to the Germans growing and basically sort of European revival. Even though there was still going like, say, in France and Eastern Europe, there was kind of like pushed into the the underbelly of industrial products like gym furniture.
Dion Markgraaff: [00:06:18] You know, and then with the whole hype of Amsterdam combining that with, you know, these new Hemp products got, you know, a lot of media attention and things really blew up from there.
Joy Beckerman: [00:06:33] They sure did. In fact, my first trip to Amsterdam and I'm certainly there with to be a judge at the high times Cannabis Cup in November of 1995. And that was a really special one that I'm sure you remember, because Alex Gray, the very famous visionary artist, and his wife, an equally famous one, Alison Gray. They were there for the cop, along with Steven Gaskins, and came to me from the Rainbow Family as the high priest. And Alex Hemp from Cannabis, which was the the mascot for that particular Cannabis Cup. And we did at the melk that there in Amsterdam, an international Hemp fashion show with fashions from all over the world. And I there were very few females in the movement at that time, as you might remember. And so I was not only one of the very few females that were judging the cup that year, but I was the only one that had long dreadlocks and.
Joy Beckerman: [00:07:31] So they put me in that Hemp fashion show. So let's bring now sort of moving up into the modern day. At what point did you leave Europe?
Dion Markgraaff: [00:07:42] When did you leave Europe pay?
Dion Markgraaff: [00:07:45] Only I when the medical marijuana law passed in California in ninety six, I thought this great revolution was going to happen in California. Everything was going to change. So I came back to California just to sort of visit, you know, things for me in Holland or going great. You know, I had a lot of success in business and I came back to sort of check things out. But of course, everyone here was so dang afraid of the government said no one was doing anything. So I ended up opening the first dispensary, medical dispensary and say the AIGO ended up getting prosecuted and having, you know, a decade and a half struggle fighting with the government, with court cases and totally horrible terms. So that's how I ended up back here.
Joy Beckerman: [00:08:41] How did that court case end up with the government stealing my child and me making a plea bargain to leave the country?
Dion Markgraaff: [00:08:50] And that's how I then went back to Europe for many years. And then the CBD industry started getting going. And so from afar, I was actually living in Mexico that I started working with the CBD company. That got the whole thing going.
Dion Markgraaff: [00:09:11] Basically, you know, commercializing CBD across the country and around the world and that company and one of the main guys, my Koyama, is what's making a tremendous amount of money.
Dion Markgraaff: [00:09:24] And I was trying to get him to the company to get it. Hemp create this. I knew that was going to be the biggest, best thing coming down the pike bigger than the cannabinoids. So that's when I lose more to that directional attention.
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Joy Beckerman: [00:10:26] How about vote Hemp? Can you tell us a little bit about the impetus of vote Hemp, which I think well, I know came before your relationship with the cannabinoids and your incredible work internationally with delivering cannabinoids. Let's not skip the vote Hemp piece. What happened there?
Dion Markgraaff: [00:10:44] Well. So Hemp I mean I was with Eric Lee go all the way back to Amsterdam. Eric was part of Eric. Team Show was a part of Eco Lucian. He was actually owned and run by Steve D'Angelo of Harborside fame. They started producing Hemp jeans and we were the first ones to sell him in Europe. And yes, kept in touch with Eric and all that over the years and vote.
Joy Beckerman: [00:11:14] You want to talk to folks about that idea, though? Hemp is the course of five or one seat still exist today? Still, Eric Stitcher is the president of that board. Is it 5 to one C for advocacy organization, for Hemp and for many, many moons? The right arm partner of the Hemp Industry Association, the 5:26 Trade Association, that we needed a lobbying organization to complement the trade association because of course, different nonprofits have different limitations of things that they can do to continue to get their tax exempt nonprofit status. And we needed that lobbying arm. So I believe with David Boehner and Eric Scenester and I I met Eric for the first time. I didn't realize it was Eric until years later. But at that very same Cannabis Cup equal, Lucian made lots of fashion that was part of that fashion show. And of course, they had a booth there. So vote Hemp of hard core education and advocacy. And you were such a big part of that as you still are today. I also remember, I believe with the 2012 Medical Cannabis Cup times Medical Cannabis Cup, high time zones, that word Cannabis Cup phobe. So when you hear that, you can assume side times where someone's getting a cease and desist letter. And they had a medical cannabis cup in Seattle in 2012. And I'll never forget walking in. And there was this big double buth Hemp man, it said, and there was some CBD got'em and some other products there. And I believe you were there at that cup behind that booth educating folks about those cannabinoids, the Hemp derived CBD, is that correct?
Dion Markgraaff: [00:12:56] Yes. I got in about that time. You know, it was it was a whole weird evolution, how the whole CBD thing happened.
Dion Markgraaff: [00:13:07] It was surprisingly, you know, so many in the marijuana industry were against CBD, I suppose, because it was something new and different. And I would also say that it's sort of in the middle between, you know, marijuana. People thought it was too much like Hemp. And people thought of this too much like marijuana. So, yeah, there was a lot of hate and begin in the CBD.
Dion Markgraaff: [00:13:33] And so it was weird because, you know, I've been in the industry before. Almost all these people who were I helped recruit into the industry and then they were turning on me because I was promoting, you know, another aspect of the plant. You know, to me, I found it very strange because, you know, for me, though, the plant is one big holes thing and we want to promote the whole thing. Part of the economic viability of the whole process.
Joy Beckerman: [00:14:08] Well, you're absolutely right. And it's been a fascinating journey from a social science perspective. And the way that's playing out now is in state legislatures where we've got, you know, people say, boy, I bet a big oil and big paper, they're really fighting Hemp legalization. And the answer is no, they are not. They recognize that they need to move on to renewable resources and they recognize the value that Hemp is. We still contend with big pharma, of course, in a big way. We probably also still contend with the alcohol industry when we're talking about medical and adult new forms of cannabis. Not that alcohol has anything to do with medical cannabis, it's just that they seem to be fighting all of it. But it's the marijuana industry itself, the adult use and medical marijuana industry itself, which sometimes comes up against Hemp interests in state legislatures now. And there's there are some competing interests there. Hemp Hemp doesn't see it that way. But certainly these other legalized medical and don't use cannabis market to do so that it's fascinating in that respect.
Dion Markgraaff: [00:15:12] Yeah, we've seen that in California. The marijuana cannabis industry has been sort of, you know, fighting the Hemp in this street.
Dion Markgraaff: [00:15:22] Yeah, it's the whole evil evolution of things. Seems now CBD and that cannabinoid is the big player in driving the whole industry that I take, you know, to a certain extent. Now farmers and everyone have gotten into it, you know, sort of made a few steps into it. And a lot of people are realizing the bigger picture is the industrial products that come from Hemp with, you know, construction materials especially.
Joy Beckerman: [00:15:55] Absolutely. The trillion dollar industry is, as we say, the oil seed and fiber industry is that Hemp serves, which is all of them. So we could talk for hours and hours, but we want to talk about Hemp Creek. And I'm sitting there and this is where you and I, even though we have so, so much in common, ridiculous amounts in common with not only just what we do, what with what, but with what we like, with who we like, where we like to go. Hemp creed is, you know, you are my brother and Hemp Creed. And it's a it's a special little tribe that is obsessed with this mode. Rock, fire and pest resistant construction in-fill that provide the ideal indoor air quality that with a properly sized while depending where you are in the climate closer to a or the equator on good windows, you can keep your interior temperature at 60 degrees Fahrenheit every year without a heating or cooling system. It'll last for hundreds of years. It's renewable. It's recyclable. I could go on and on. But what I'm most thrilled about is that right now I am standing inside of the world's first mobile Hemp Crete home, which you and I and Steven Clark and Sergei.
Joy Beckerman: [00:17:11] And you're going to remind me of the beautiful brother. I think it's Abraham also from Mexico with CVN and from having grown in Mexico. And, of course, Greg Laval. And thanks to your incredible leadership in getting it all together, we created this beautiful mobile Hemp Crete home on wheels with French doors. And I slept in it last night. And it's just absolutely gorgeous. And we did it in three days and sent it off to had it towed. Dr. Bronner's came I think it was five o'clock in the morning and it was still carrying freshly poured. Oh, my God. He was so nervous and towed it off to Balbo apart for Earth Day in San Diego, where you were in charge of the Cannon Village, all the things that you've done here. Let's talk for a while about how how did you get introduced to Hemp create and give us some stats for the really lay it on us. You do such a great job in your public. Speaking of telling people why this is so incredibly important. This particular construction material, the tremendous impact that it will have and had.
Dion Markgraaff: [00:18:15] Yeah, well, I found out all the way back in Amsterdam, actually, you know, the French people came into our shop and who started the whole, you know, using Hemp and line. And so I thought, you know, it was just one of those, you know, many uses that I thought would just blow up and be huge. And, you know, I didn't necessarily concentrate on it, but over the years, it's, you know, no one's been doing it. And with our eco crisis and knowing how much this can address and address it, I became more and more, you know, attuned to it. And yet it just you know, the being here in California is seeing all these fires. And, you know, this is the the product that ticks so many boxes that need to be addressed. You know, construction is the biggest source of pollution. Over 40 percent of CO2 comes just from construction. And Qantas, of course, carbon negative. So we could turn one of the biggest problems into one of the biggest solutions. The same with waste. Over half the waste in our landfills comes from construction and Hemp is zero waste. So those are just such big factors in the whole humanity survival scheme of things that, you know, I've been just concentrating all my effort into that.
Dion Markgraaff: [00:19:54] And you think about it, we're about to add two billion more people to the planet. So statistically, while, for example, here in California we need 3.5 million homes just to get to where we need to be in non-crisis setting. But in the future, we need to add statistically a billion square feet of housing. Every which is about the size of New York City. Every thirty five days for the next thirty five years. So with that kind of demand, you know, in that perspective, we really don't have hope without Hemp, you know, the less we really dove in and get this going. a.S.A.P, you know, we're not going to be able to turn this thing around. So that's why I was, you know, happy to participate and get going to see us Hemp Building Association, where, you know, we're such a Spaull beginning right now. But we need to blow this thing up into basically every thing we see should be made with. And we need to turn this around now. And so, you know, putting all my effort into it. And we have a lot of good programs going. So for less than $10 a month. You could, you know, help us and be a member and spread the word.
Dion Markgraaff: [00:21:33] And one of the big things we're working on now, which is the real deal breaker, is sort of try and create as a building material, which is really holding it back at that point.
Dion Markgraaff: [00:21:46] And I think after we have that within a year, I absolutely want to talk about that.
Joy Beckerman: [00:21:50] I want to make sure the listeners know that. So right now, I'm excited after we talk about the ICC that we talk about the recent incredible fire rating that was just received in Crete is not internationally rated. So and that's the key to building, planning and getting your plans approved and building things up to code in your particular jurisdiction. Now, there have been many Hemp create structures that have gone up in the United States. The first one went up in 2010. Hemp Technologies, a good friend of ours, good friends of ours, built that first permanent Hemp Crete home in Asheville, North Carolina, or near Asheville. It was actually for the mayor of Asheville, North Carolina, in many Hemp Crete homes and structures. In fact, the first certified platinum lead home. Home is also in Asheville, so they're up. But what it requires is for homeowners and builders or developers who want to use this material. They become advocates by default because they've got to educate and persuade their building departments, building and planning departments to allow them to use this alternate building material. And in some jurisdictions, that's easy because these are very sophisticated building and planning department personnel who are familiar with alternate building solutions in green and sustainable building materials. And then there are others where it's quite difficult. And if we can also just put this in perspective, supply chain wise, that we had five hundred and eleven thousand acres of Hemp permitted to grow in the United States in 2019 growing season. Now, about 230000 of those acres were actually planted due to lack of genetics, lack of funding, lack of land, lack of equipment, all kinds of things. And then about 50 to 60 percent of that crop was actually harvested, perhaps around one hundred and fifteen thousand acres, although much of it sits there because so much of it was overproduced, produced for this inflated extract or CBD market.
Joy Beckerman: [00:23:55] And what we really want, again, is for our farmers to prepare for the trillion dollar industries, prepare for the oil seed and fiber industries, and prepare for Hemp processing infrastructure to come to a city near you. Ultimately, we want to see these processes for processing and manufacturing facilities, whether they're for hemp seed oil and grain to make into densely nutritious foods and bulk food ingredients from that incredible seed, which is the most digestible form of protein on the entire planet animal kingdom. And of course, as has the beautiful and perfect ratio of omega 3s and 6, or whether it's for that long, strong fiber that our vast fiber for the many, many industries it serves or that inner woody core. But we need the farmers to be able to sell the biomass, these strong valuable plants that they grow. And the minute we can get Hemp Praet rated particularly international and the holy grail of that international rating system is ICC International Certification Code. Once that happens, that's going to give the green light for building and planning departments in every jurisdiction to be able to entertain and approve this as a building material. Not only are we going to be solving housing crisis, pollution crisis, landfill crisis, we're going to be giving that immediate market to our farmers that can just feed that herd. You know what the core of the Hemp stock, which is what Hemp created meet-up heard a special type of and water and it will just open up that entire market. So it's just it's just so incredibly important. So tell us about this this sort of case to get the rating, brother, and how U.S. Hemp Building Association is working with that.
Dion Markgraaff: [00:25:43] Well, yes, it seems to be. You know, before I sort of tackle the situation, that seemed like a daunting task from the outside. And this was sort of like urban myths built around the how difficult whether it was or is.
Dion Markgraaff: [00:26:03] And the more I've been engaged in, you know, trying to address it. Yeah. The easier it seems and more possible, it seems.
Dion Markgraaff: [00:26:13] So, you know, just the process of the U.S., HBK, you know, engaging, which, you know, a lot of times in life, that's what it takes. Right. Is just, you know, getting up and doing that. And it's magically been coming together. The ASTM, which is part of the whole process, they've been super helpful.
Dion Markgraaff: [00:26:37] And it's been a great way to get organized. And they contacted the ICC for us and they're excited to work with us. And now we're just in the funding phase of getting some money together to open the door. And then we're going to bring in different companies with their different products and set a range of acceptable parameters that other people can, you know, therefore exceed. And that's when it comes to the Heard's and the binder. So to make sure they're within a range of acceptable, acceptable, acceptable specs. So that's what we're busy with now, bringing in the different companies to get their products analyzed. And one company through Hemp texture just submitted for fire burn rating and just was published recently and the fire rating was zero. So on a scale of four hundred and fifty to zero, it was a zero. Fire spread and they said it was the first time they had ever seen such a rating in a test.
Dion Markgraaff: [00:27:57] And when we when we say they do, do we know the day that gave that rating zero ASTM.
Joy Beckerman: [00:28:04] Oh would they. And they gave the rating. Yeah.
Joy Beckerman: [00:28:07] American standard of testing and measurements. And we certainly talk about them on the show from time to time because they play such an important, as you say, role in these emerging industries. They created that day 37 committee on Cannabis, about three or so, potentially four things. Time goes by so quickly now, years ago and then multiple subcommittees, including the subcommittee on Hemp Creed. So just I love to watch these and experience these coalitions working together.
Dion Markgraaff: [00:28:35] Right. So they only created the Hemp Creed US section due to the US HBK engaging with them. And so that only started in December. So that was a historic great milestone. But by the beginning of January, the ICC were already connected to us.
Dion Markgraaff: [00:28:58] And again, you know, we've got now this the whole thing is right in front of us. Now we just need to raise the money, which is not that much money.
Dion Markgraaff: [00:29:09] You know, it's actually $10000 dollars just to open the report and getting the ICC, dedicating their, you know, civil engineers to basically hold our hand through the process. So they're very excited. We're very excited.
Dion Markgraaff: [00:29:30] Now, we just have to you know, we just have to do it, basically raise the money, organize the materials and the companies and get it done. And once we got it done by the end of the year, I hope my next goal is to make it illegal not to use.
Joy Beckerman: [00:29:49] I love it.
Dion Markgraaff: [00:29:51] I love it because it's so superior in so many ways.
Joy Beckerman: [00:29:55] And my understanding is that, you know, the most that this process may cost is and this is a joint process. This is the USDA is taking this on. Nobody can own this. This is this is doing it for the people and for the farmers, for the industry, for the planet and for the plant. The most it might cost, depending on various factors, would be up to potentially forty four thousand dollars, but literally nothing. A small team. I knew nothing of a drop in the bucket to create an entire industry with the impact of truly epic proportions in terms of planetary healing, housing the homeless and totally non combustible, sturdy, healthy buildings that hold and regulate thermal energy and humidity and that again give our farmers that immediate market for their herd. We just need simple coordination, which folks who listen to this show know is the separation of the outer bark the best fiber from the inner woody core, the herd of that stock. And then it simply needs to be processed into a particular geometric particle range and removed of the majority of its vast fiber and chaff that got in mixed in with the herd. This is easy stuff. It's going to be a multibillion dollar industry and we're just so excited for folks to learn about it, get their hands on it. And most importantly, contribute to this fundamental foundational piece, to the entire healing here. And that is the ICC rating. So if folks want to get in touch with you and if they want and want to learn about Hemp, how do they do that if they want to contribute? Deon's.
Dion Markgraaff: [00:31:37] Yes. Thank you for mentioning that. Yeah. It's the U.S. HP a thought. Oh, ah, gee, that's our Web site. And you can contribute whether that's energy helping us or, you know, financially or spreading the information. You know, it's all hands on deck. This is, I think, literally the most important thing. You know, that it's possible that people could do at the moment. And this whole situation with the certification literally drives me so crazy at the moment that, you know, if I thought it would serve a purpose, purpose, I would light my hair on fire right down the street.
Dion Markgraaff: [00:32:22] I mean, it's just I I know you would.
Dion Markgraaff: [00:32:27] I would. I mean, it's just so important. So I know it's going to happen. You know, all this that we've all been talking about is 100 percent going to happen. Guaranteed for sure. But really, for me, the issue is the time. You know, weird to insuch in ropeable, stupid damage to ourselves that. Yes. Just the I feel the pressure of being on this time clock. And that's why I hope, you know, your listeners and all of us can unite and, you know, change this around as soon as possible.
Joy Beckerman: [00:33:03] It's here. It's upon us. I think the Grateful, Grateful Dead said it best when they said the future is here. We are it. We're on our own and we've got to work together. Nobody's coming in to save us. We've got to work together to do this. And boy, it's people like you, Deon, for year after year, decades now, sacrificing, sacrificing your own personal freedom for every aspect of this plant and putting one foot in front of the other here. We're getting it done and building a giant coalition from every walk of life now in mainstream. And so again, U S H B A like U s Hemp building association u._n.'s HB A dawg. Please check it out. Please support this organization. Please support the most incredible and important and critical work being undertaken by this organization. Deon. It's an honor and a pleasure and a privilege to be a friend. Most importantly, to call you my brother. Thank you. And I cannot wait to sleep in the penthouse again tonight.
Dion Markgraaff: [00:34:04] Just one more thing, please.
Dion Markgraaff: [00:34:08] I just wanted to mention to everybody, we're going to be what are the main features that no co we're coming up in a few weeks in Denver. And you know, we're gonna have our own area dedicated and showing people all the possibilities.
Joy Beckerman: [00:34:25] Awesome. Wonderful. noko. The Northern Colorado Hemp Expo. New Hemp Expo dot com. Not going away because of the Corona virus.
Joy Beckerman: [00:34:34] Hemp doesn't do hysteria. Once again, I cannot wait to sleep in the temp house again tonight. Deon, thank you so much for being with us on the show. We're going to have you back on the. Thank you for everything you do. Thank you.
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