Finally, the Endocannabinoid System / cannabis relationship made simple.
The complexities of the endocannabinoid system, particularly its response to cannabdiol (CBD) has gained recent attention throughout the medical and research communities. Dr Jokubas Ziburkus, a tenured professor at the University of Houston and Chief Innovation Officer at MariMed Inc, is recognized as one of the world's preeminent endocannabinoid system authorities. On today's Hemp Barons podcast he joins Joy Beckerman of Hemp Ace Intermational to explain how the endocannabinoid system works.
Joy Beckerman: [00:00:08] Welcome to today's Hemp Barons podcast.
Joy Beckerman: [00:00:10] I have a great educational treat here for you today in that we are bringing Dr. Jokubas Ziburkus of us, or Dr. Ziburkus, as he is known internationally, to explain the complexities in the most simple terms possible of this incredible discovery, the endocannabinoid system. I have used the listeners education for my own platform to ask him every possible question I've ever wanted explained and re explained to me. And so I'm very excited to be able to share this information with everyone today. Doctor, the KUBIS, as I call him, is an accomplished scientist, innovator, speaker, entrepreneur, but mostly an educator and a very valued friend of mine. So this very excited to deliver this info to you. During the last week, I drove with an incredible, wonderful lawyer friend of mine from New York State to Seattle because I moved back to Seattle. My belongings, all of my worldly belongings are on their way to me and one of those pods, but my Prius and I and Nicole needed to get our own bodies in the car back here. What an interesting traveling journey that was, because, of course, we're practicing every possible CDC protocol and guideline as we were driving across the nation and thankful it was a good time to drive across because the hotels are only just now starting to open. And they were very sparsely populated. And we stayed in some of the higher end hotels, which are quite affordable right now, but also practicing some fantastic sanitation guidelines and protocols which were very important to us.
Joy Beckerman: [00:01:50] And different states seem to have different awarenesses about wearing masks. We, of course, always wear masks. Out of respect for everybody. And also trying to set a good example in various jurisdictions where we saw there were little to no mask wearing. And we'll keep those states to ourselves right now. Just please wear a mask. It's a sign of respect to everybody. Also, my son spiral walking in balance, my young lady who is 26 years old, he left today to go from Seattle to Lexington, Kentucky. So we are driving opposite sides of the country here. He will start his one year MBA at Gatton at the University of Kentucky. So practicing all of the same protocols. Such a dicey thing to be traveling right now. And yet life is moving on and my family is moving forward as safely as we can in this transformative and interesting time. In any event, I really hope you get as much as I did out of today. So it's such a treat to have Dr. Zee here explaining one of the most important discoveries in our lifetimes, and that is the discovery of the endocannabinoid system. And so with that, get ready for a wonderful interview. I'm really excited to bring you yet another incredible interview next week.
[00:03:07] But in the meantime, please enjoy Dr. Ziburkus. And I'm wishing everyone in their family good health and inspiration until we meet again.
Joy Beckerman: [00:03:20] We'll welcome you, Jokubas. It's wonderful to have you on Hemp Barons today, Joy.
Dr. Jokubas Ziburkus: [00:03:25] It's a pleasure to be here. And thank you for having me.
Joy Beckerman: [00:03:28] You know, you've always been so impressive, number one. I first learned about who you are truly in the professional world, doctors of burkas. From your speaking internationally, clearly you are brilliant in your field. And then secondarily, of the many businesses that you are involved with, Chief Innovation Officer Mary Nedd, co-founder of many tourists, which has created that beautiful, Hemp centric line of products, floras. That's what really sealed the deal. Not only did I already respect you as an intellectual, as a strong and passionate advocate for the delivery on the promise of cannabinoids and other products, but the most beautiful packaging and fantastic products. I'll never forget I got a gorgeous gift bag from you a couple of years ago at a Hemp conference and savored literally every last drop from the ingestible to the top. Pickles on down. Before we get started, I always like to. That's terrific. Thank you. Thank you. I know.
Dr. Jokubas Ziburkus: [00:04:34] Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you so much, Joy. We were humbled and I really thank you. I appreciate all of the remarks.
Joy Beckerman: [00:04:44] When we when we see each other, we really see each other. You know how that goes, brother. So I always want to ask folks in D.C., I always like to ask folks before we get started. So obviously, you are a highly educated man with tremendous experience. What brought you into Hemp? When did Hemp get on your radar?
Dr. Jokubas Ziburkus: [00:05:06] I would say that maybe my relationship with Cannabis in general started in the early 90s and just discovering Cannabis of the old man and the relationship were to really begin in 2000 13.
Dr. Jokubas Ziburkus: [00:05:34] When as a neuroscience professor and researcher at that time, I was doing research using synthetic cannabinoids and also concurrently observing the global legalization of Houn positive a crop. As well as fighter cannabinoids coming on to the mainstream markets around the world. And that really took my interest in in Hemp as as a crop in the fighter cannabinoids that are in Hemp primarily because I was neuroscientist's. So I primarily was interested in the actions of cannabinoids in the brain.
Dr. Jokubas Ziburkus: [00:06:26] And later.
Dr. Jokubas Ziburkus: [00:06:28] Since 2013 evolved to a heavier, winding and ongoing story of Hemp, and I'm just happy to be a part of what I call a Hemp I love song in such a big way and leading the way.
Joy Beckerman: [00:06:45] In fact, tell me, what is it? Because now I am curious to know, as a tenured professor at the University of Houston, what what courses are you teaching or course?
Dr. Jokubas Ziburkus: [00:06:56] I mostly thought neuroscience courses, but I have to point out, what is the most relevant for this podcast is in two thousand nineteen last year, in the spring of 2013, I taught a whole semester long similar series for graduate students. I learned the cannabinoid system.
Dr. Jokubas Ziburkus: [00:07:20] So most of my teaching was neuroscience for undergraduate students, graduate students, as well as research training in the laboratory. So the University of Houston, I have my own neurophysiology and their imaging laboratory.
Dr. Jokubas Ziburkus: [00:07:38] We are trained and graduated other PGD to those through my laboratory and. Yeah. So I think that that's the relationship. I forgot the question.
Dr. Jokubas Ziburkus: [00:07:57] I have to write down. I know this is great because it is such a great answer.
Joy Beckerman: [00:08:03] It's by the way, as you were talking, you know, what's coming up for me is Man Gold Star, Gold Star for University of Houston. Your answer was a commercial for University of Houston, in fact. I mean, I'm impressed. I had no idea that University of Houston was really grabbing on to the ECAC, the endocannabinoid system in that in that respect at that level. That's quite impressive.
Dr. Jokubas Ziburkus: [00:08:29] I would say it always comes down to individual T. I's individual processes. And this particular passion for science, a particular passion for specific molecule, a disease that there are following. And it really came out of my passion and the not only out of the passion, but also by simple observation that I started, including the cannabinoid system.
Dr. Jokubas Ziburkus: [00:08:57] One or two lectures and then the Kinabalu system. And so cannabinoids in the undergraduate neuroscience course, as well as in the graduate science course portion for neuroscience. But then I realized that that wasn't enough, that if you just go over in one hour or two hours explaining that the economic system and elements and Hemp and then Cannabis and the interactions between the biological chemicals and the human body, it is very good because it's it changes slightly the opinion of the students.
Dr. Jokubas Ziburkus: [00:09:36] But what was really for me interesting is, one, the graduate, as soon as we get together for the some of the they really were not aware of the looking on alert system.
Dr. Jokubas Ziburkus: [00:09:48] They were not aware of the role the cannabinoids play in modulating the system.
Dr. Jokubas Ziburkus: [00:09:55] And for the most part, their knowledge was really along the lines of what you hear in in the community that stigmatizes cannabis, that it's not necessarily an element of cannabis, cannabinoids. So what they walked out with is a completely different understanding of what the Can-Am alert system is, how it's involved, and particularly in an immune system and information, as well as cancers in the brain and the body. And mission accomplished, because four months later, I thought that the students now had a much better group understanding, as well as giving weight to a system that lets components that could be now potentially a part of the research.
Joy Beckerman: [00:10:49] You know, I always know and all of my guests are so wonderful. But, you know, I have I'm tingling. You're very inspired right now as you're speaking. And I, I, I really want us to get into the endocannabinoid system, because the reality is that that we we haven't discussed it from a scientific, particularly neuroscientific level. And I really want the listeners to get the benefit of your tremendous tutelage. And I know full well that you can present this otherwise complex material in a way that the average Joe can understand. And yet, before we do, I just have to tell you again, Goldstar for University of Houston, because, brother, it was unfortunately, it's not the case that it's just boils down to the passion of the t'ai or the professor. I have worked with many professors of state universities who are very impassioned, Andrea Hermann, who you well know, who started the Oregon State University, but program on Hemp, the WSC to 66 with science and engineering. And, you know, she's. She's my mentor, one of my closest friends on the planet. And I was blessed to be able to do the legislative piece of that. But guess what happened after three years of teaching that course, all of the sudden they told her. Oregon State University. And by the way, God bless them. And. This is. Well, over now. But so you're aware all of a sudden they said to her, you're no longer allowed to teach the agronomy portion of your Hemp course, even though that was literally called Hemp Agronomy, a Canadian case study.
Joy Beckerman: [00:12:32] And they said that you are violating that that would violate the school's policy on controlled substances. The Oregon State University cannot be a coconspirator in in providing the students with an education on how to grow a controlled substance. And she had to hire a lawyer. She got professors from the, you know, associated professor network to send letters and appeal the decision. And the answer was, no, no, no, no, no. Until that 2018 farm bill. So in her syllabus, then after several semesters of teaching that course, there was a big hole where she left Hemp Agronomy Canadian case study and said this. We will not be teaching this course because of this policy at this link. And if you want to complain or appeal, send an e-mail to this person. So, you know, it's again, amazing that the University of Houston, we're talking about a conservative state, Texas, where your passion was enough for them, brother. And, you know, there's always so much more at work when as Hemp emerges here, so many other other factors. But what a bonus that for you. It was passion. They listened and they let you teach the students about this. Whereas at Oregon State University for a few years, there were even after hiring a lawyer and appealing, we were we were told you may not make the students aware that was the language. You may not make the students aware of how to cultivate a controlled substance. Isn't that amazing?
Dr. Jokubas Ziburkus: [00:14:06] It is. I have to tell you that the definitely kudos to the University of Houston and I hope that we can continue and even expand this there, because, you know, Texas also, as you know, is coming online with a lot of Hemp, hopefully a lot of them this year, if not this year than next year.
Dr. Jokubas Ziburkus: [00:14:25] But regulatory framework is their least. And I think, you know, the difference is that when you talk about conservation, it is still much more stigmatized when you talk about the basic science and the neuro, neuro neurological and other pharmacological body components of the cannabinoid system and the disease.
Dr. Jokubas Ziburkus: [00:14:47] It's it's a lot more palatable for for academia. And I think it's a lot more relevant than Shirley after Hemp formed the cultivation because completely legitimized or completely irrelevant to some. I'm glad to have it back on board. Oregon State.
Joy Beckerman: [00:15:03] Thank you. Yes, absolutely. And of course, leading the way, you probably are well aware of Dr. Jane Knoller, who is just an international rock star at this point with Hemp. I mean, they've been obviously tremendously supportive of Hemp, but that was that was a shocker. That was not a fun time to go through, brother. And I can understand that was that was hard a hard time, you know, especially with Senator one, Ron Wyden and and Congressman Earl Blumenauer. It was just fascinating. But but in any event, let's get into it.
Joy Beckerman: [00:15:35] Let's let me go back to the then brother.
Joy Beckerman: [00:15:40] Let's get right to it. So excited for the listeners to get your benefit right.
Dr. Jokubas Ziburkus: [00:15:46] Well, we have to understand that we are dealing with essentially a 30 year old discover that there is this major homeostatic regulatory body, this system called the two system. And it could consist of cannabinoid molecules that are synthesized internally that are called endocannabinoids. So our own bodies make cannabinoids or endo inside the cannabinoids made inside our bodies. These cannabinoids are made by synthesizing enzymes that make them on demand. And then there's us to break them down when they're not much needed in the body. And when these molecules, endocannabinoid molecules are made, they target receptors. They're called cannabinoid receptor one, season one, that cannabinoid receptor two in virtually every or them. And so in human and mammalian bodies and even some of the primitive organisms that live in the oceans, they contain components of the cannabinoid system. Let me repeat that again, that almost virtually every organ of cell in the human body contains components or many or all of the components, known components of the Cannabis system. So, c.D, want to see me do this first and then the cannabinoid system. So these receptors. In the brain, one wanted to be so could see one receptors dominating in the brain tissues. But there's also c.B two receptors and they serve different functions in the brain. For example, c.B one, receptors serve a function of controlling how neurons communicate with each other. This communication is called neural transmission. So in one neuron, in the brain, one brain cell communicates to another neuron. Another brain cell. This is called neural transmission. And Stevie Wonder, receptor activation of that receptor controls this neural transmission and balances the amount of how excited your brain is or how subdued or inhibited your brain.
Dr. Jokubas Ziburkus: [00:18:09] And c.B, to receptors that are not as prevalent in the brain, but they're are also there, they serve a different function. Their function in the brain is to control inflammation.
Dr. Jokubas Ziburkus: [00:18:21] And they're mostly found in the brain cells that are called GLI cells. They are supportive cells and these cannabinoid receptors to us. We do receptors and glial cells. They control the inflammatory response in the brain. There are these inflammatory molecules to be released called sites of kinds. And sometimes in the media, you will even hear lately the cytokine storms or the inflammatory storms. And you hear that lately because it's actually related to what code it is doing and causing inflammation. But these two receptors control the inflammation. Now, in the rest of the body outside of the brain, these two receptors will be found to, like I mentioned.
Dr. Jokubas Ziburkus: [00:19:11] Also, virtually all of the organs, but very much concentrated in the organs that are involved in the immune response.
Dr. Jokubas Ziburkus: [00:19:21] And in this in this in this in this way, we have this very intricate network, this very intricate system that spans from the brain into the body and even into the skin because you have cannabinoid receptors and the nerve endings in the skin and plays a major role in that role is regulating and controlling the balance of the body. So there is a certain level of endocannabinoids inside the body that gets produced. Let's say just steady state or, you know, a regular state of being. And if the brain gets stressed, if the body gets stressed, if there is an infection, the endocannabinoid production goes up on demand. In fact, this system is so important that this system. The increases in the cannabinoids and noted in the breast milk then in the store to promote the suckling behavior of off of off a newborn. And it is also interesting that Stevie Wonder SEPTA's not only control no transmission, but one of the main targets of the psychoactive cannabinoid in Hemp and in Cannabis is THC, the hybrid cannabidiol, and the target c.b, one of the subjects and causes the euphoric effect. So we know that Hemp doesn't contain as much of the psychoactive tetrahydrocannabinol, but that's what it does with causes. That high effect often is also described in the literature as if there's a bliss. In fact, one of the endocannabinoids Skold.
Dr. Jokubas Ziburkus: [00:21:14] And then the mind and that word and Nunda.
Dr. Jokubas Ziburkus: [00:21:19] It stands for for Sanskrit, for ancient Indian language, basically for bliss molecule. And so that's important to keep in mind that that naturally then you will say, OK. And then these other Cannabis notes have been cause of bliss in your brain, too. And that's exactly what do they improve our moods. They make us happier. Kanab alliance with exercise. We now know that endocannabinoids if there's there's no endorphins, there is no engorging. There's no dodginess like morphine molecules that are produced. There is endocannabinoids. And the endocannabinoid is what the runners. Now we know experience is the runner's high or the runners bless. So the release of BENZER Cannabinoids and activation of Cannabinoid System and S.V., one of the subjects in the brain giving that happy boost feeling after having a workout, which is one of the best ways to stimulate under another system.
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Joy Beckerman: [00:23:12] Absolutely. It was so great to hear one. I have a running list of some things I wanted to make sure that I asked you about. And of course, as a as a mother who gave birth to two children naturally at home and breastfed, particularly my youngest for several years, breast milk was absolutely on that list. That is, you know, I wanted to talk a little bit about that in terms of in in the context of endocannabinoid deficiency syndrome. And I have some other questions here that I I would love for you to be able to answer. But could we talk for a moment about a world where we don't aren't aware of the endocannabinoid system? We're only just becoming aware of it, even though, of course, as you know, it's discovered 30 years ago. Thank you, Dr. Rafael Masoom. But, you know, it's so, so important. And I often say on this show, it's literally this discovering this in our lifetime is like discovering that the earth is round and not flat, to understand that we have more of these cannabinoid receptors in our brain than neurotransmitters. And could you correct me on that statement if I'm wrong about that? Do we indeed have cannabinoid receptors in our brain?
Dr. Jokubas Ziburkus: [00:24:27] Yes, I do need to kind of correct you on this, because what we do have is the S.V. one receptor, the cannabinoid receptor one. A lot of times it's scientifically, as is referred as G protein coupled receptor so that the G couple protein G protein coupled receptors are not channels. They don't they don't conduct Eilts. That's the difference. But this one receptor is the most prevalent G protein coupled with such an brain. So there's in fact a lot more neurotransmitters because they're much smaller molecules and they're the life cycle is much faster than this receptor protein. Is that what they are? They're essentially proteins in the plasma membrane.
Dr. Jokubas Ziburkus: [00:25:12] Cell membranes to these receptors are G protein couple receptors. Cannabinoid receptor one is the most prevalent in the brain.
Dr. Jokubas Ziburkus: [00:25:21] So it's absolutely one of the one of the giants and the important receptors in the brain. It's one of the most important systems in the brain, in the body. But I want to caution the community. I want to caution that let's not all of a sudden forget that this system, looking over this system is not the only major regulatory are starting by this system and that this endocannabinoid system doesn't function on it. So it is intricately involved, the other body systems. So whether we can call it as all button for the switchboard, lots of certain. What I'm certain about, you know, argue that it is one of the most important controls on the switchboard. And what the on button this is probably just giving birth and the hot button. This turning off.
Joy Beckerman: [00:26:20] Yes. Yes. No, indeed. And so thank you so much for that. I am so grateful for that. One regulatory expert and, you know, so great with grain. But when we get into the science of the ECF, you know, you pick your poison, you pick your area of expertize. So. So we're just very blessed to have you saying that, correcting me on that, because it's something I've been quite curious about. So breast milk, we were born into this world. We have no idea where breastfeeding our children as much as I love Cannabis. And like you, I got involved with Cannabis billion in the late 80s, but had owned a Hemp store in New York by the early 90s. And so here I was breastfeeding my children because I knew I wanted to do things just as naturally and healthily as I could. But having literally no awareness at all that I'm delivering cannabinoids, endocannabinoids to them in the breast milk and and then having even less awareness that after I stopped breastfeeding that they were no longer getting that infusion of cannabinoids, although I appreciate that they're made on demand. Having said that, how do we reconcile making endocannabinoids on demand with an endocannabinoid deficiency syndrome? Could you speak to that?
Dr. Jokubas Ziburkus: [00:27:36] Absolutely no. I have a holistic view when I think about the cannabinoid system and the human interaction or the Hemp and Joe, I think that we have been deprived of the supply and the interaction of nutrition or our most about a hundred years ago.
[00:27:59] There was a significant Hemp was a significant part of diet, of culture, of nutrition in many different regions, not everywhere around the world, but in many different regions. But this is obviously a geographical botanical specialty.
Dr. Jokubas Ziburkus: [00:28:16] Clients and preferences grow. But so now we were deprived of that relationship, even if it was in the textile level and it was on the clothing or the housing level, you were still deprived. That means environment. And how we call involved with this plan to start with all of a sudden abruptly was changed by lots, not by nature, but by loss.
Dr. Jokubas Ziburkus: [00:28:43] Then a hundred years later, almost, you know, the eradication of Hemp and Cannabis entire states of Texas, for example, started in 1919. So 2019, Texas came online again with a hundred years later. We are reintroducing these elements. What we're talking about is the cannabinoid system elements that the cannabinoids that are in the breast milk that are naturally produced after birth, too.
Dr. Jokubas Ziburkus: [00:29:11] This is a very interesting topic for me because we were always start that is the Delta immune system and the dopamine reward that keeps driving children into into breastfeeding and is an important part of the whole early interaction with the mother. But it's actually also the cannabinoids that are driving this. What is making you hungry? What is giving you munchies? It's endocannabinoids. Give me the munchies. If the doping gives you satisfaction, does because you have something already that you have something nutritiously, you had something sweet. So you could argue that internally this is the initial drive for the infant to get the endocannabinoids from the mother. Now, how does that relationship continue? Interesting. If you stop breastfeeding and the child doesn't have endocannabinoids anymore, then obviously in this age we are kind of introducing some of these elements back into our diet. And the when I say I look at it holistically, I look at it holistically from the core evolution of Hemp in human.
Dr. Jokubas Ziburkus: [00:30:20] I look at it also from the fact that we have to see the Hemp as one of the most sustainable crops, especially in this environment, in this changing world, could be one of the saviors to be one of the safest that we will see cannabinoids, micro levels of cannabinoids and toping, some flavonoids and the mega amino acids and vitamin D and Perrotti noise coming from Hemp seeds and from the Hemp plant entering not only into the human diet, but into the feed, into the livestock feed, into into making the environment for the animals and for the humans better. And when you asked about the endocannabinoid system deficiency, I always wondered if all of a sudden this interruption of our relationship with Hemp and access to Hemp and criminalization of Cannabis and criminalization of marijuana, if it if it didn't contribute to what we call them, the Cannabis, the deficiency syndromes and Weatherbee syndromes are early syndromes that are related more to the developmental and behavioral psychological disorders with autism syndrome like spectrum or if they're related more to the adults.
Dr. Jokubas Ziburkus: [00:31:48] If you were to read through Dr. Ethan Roussos work, who is also a giant in this field as we retire, pioneered a lot of thinking about the economic deficiencies in his opinion that I would largely agree economically deficient. Is this especially an older generation Expressen sources hyperalgesia or too much pain. And and we're talking about pain from fibromyalgia. We're just talking about regular wear and tear joints and muscles and Justino all all elderly aging pains. And then the cannabinoid deficiencies seem to be really associated with this kind of hyperalgesia, some increased inflammation in the body to justice. Does that mean, then, that we should really reintroduce these elements into into into the children's diets and to the newborn's diets?
Dr. Jokubas Ziburkus: [00:32:47] I'm not talking about psychoactive sehen. I'm talking about Hemp elements from Harm Micro. Does this level solve all of. Goodness. His office is Vatican analyst UDC DGC.
Dr. Jokubas Ziburkus: [00:33:03] You see all of this is just one part of the grid and all of it. And if we were not meant to have a relationship with this plant, we would not have an endocannabinoid system and it would not control homeostasis. But before we go there, I want to touch upon inflammation, which is the source of all evil.
Joy Beckerman: [00:33:25] There's so many things you could say.
Joy Beckerman: [00:33:28] Money and greed is the root of all evil. Inflammation is the root of all pain, practically right on on some level. And I want the listeners to know and then if you could elaborate, just folks who are learning about it for the first time when used when you discussed at the beginning of the interview that the CBD, the CBD to receptors control inflammation in the brain. Really want to make it clear to folks know it's the brain that controls inflammation throughout the whole body. So DCB two receptors. We're talking about controlling inflammation, inflammation throughout the entire body. It's just done from the command center of the brain. Could you elaborate?
Dr. Jokubas Ziburkus: [00:34:05] Absolutely. So you do have the nerve centers in the brain that increase what is called the inflammatory cytokine release. And this would be a lot of times mediated by glial cells. So cannabinoid receptors due to be two receptors.
Dr. Jokubas Ziburkus: [00:34:23] There is also the brain controls a lot of things, a stress response. And then there can either move system is very intricately linked with another neuro body regulatory system called neuroendocrine system. The neuroendocrine system releases the stress hormone cortisol. And that again starts the signal comes from the brain. And then it travels down low to the lowest centers into the brainstem and then interacts with other organs in the body. And this can interact with you was with Adreno, with with kidneys. In the case of the cortisol. And so, yes, the regulation of court is also on the brain. The regulation of inflammation from the brain is very important. It is not to say that you cannot have a local inflammation because you can have a local injury and the tourists worry and have local inflammatory responses.
Dr. Jokubas Ziburkus: [00:35:21] But if you're talking about a more whole body responds that is controlled and mediated and largely controlled by these brain soldiers.
Joy Beckerman: [00:35:33] Thank you. And the big thing also that I wanted to make sure, and particularly as we conclude here, you used the term homeliest like regulatory system. Could you explain to the listeners what homeostasis is and it's and how the endocannabinoid system interacts with with homeo with our with the homeostatic regulatory system or homeostasis?
Dr. Jokubas Ziburkus: [00:35:59] Homeostasis is essentially maintaining the correct balance for the correct state of activity and function that is needed for the brain cells or other cells and organs of the body body's systems. And Jallow.
Joy Beckerman: [00:36:17] So is it correct?
Joy Beckerman: [00:36:19] Is it a correct way to sort of describe it this way? You, Jokubas, that we might say, listen, your your blood has to pump, your heart has to pump your your, your lungs have to breathe you everything needs to be working in there even as you go throughout your day dealing with various external stressors, whether it's an extreme change in temperature or a massively stressful situation or a domestic violence, you know, eruption that occurs, your body still has to keep on doing its thing even as you would handle all of those other stressors. And it's homeostasis. It's that homeostatic regulatory system that allows the inside to continue doing what it needs to do while we contend with any number of external elements. Is there? Is that correct?
Joy Beckerman: [00:37:14] Absolutely. It's trying. What is it with the homeostasis of homeostatic systems and regulation in your state is trying to reach that optimal condition or of the condition of optimal functioning for the organism? You know what? The best way sometimes I think of a very simple analogy is temperature control in the room. It's it's it's it's a it's an AC. If you are in the hospital, air conditioning, like you said, air conditioning to 70 degrees. If it goes to 71, your air conditioning kicks in.
Dr. Jokubas Ziburkus: [00:37:53] So it's equivalent to a stress response goes up. Inflammation goes up. Endocannabinoid levels goes up to Cannabis, a system for Absol to balance. Then the cooling system takes several blows, the temperature to 70 degrees.
Dr. Jokubas Ziburkus: [00:38:09] If it goes up again, it just tries to maintain that optimal functioning level.
Dr. Jokubas Ziburkus: [00:38:15] And for for for many of us, it is functioning normally. But imagine if the whole meal, if the if the AC control is the temperature controls all of a sudden broken, it becomes very uncomfortable and it becomes too hot. Or if you're talking about cold, becomes too cold. And so that would be the situation in which the homeostasis was no longer able to keep up with the changes in the body that can function and is no longer optimal. So you get set up in this kind of heightened or stressed level of functioning.
Joy Beckerman: [00:38:54] So we're sitting here, sit homeostatic homeostasis is is the regulator and it's the endocannabinoid system that is regulating that system.
Dr. Jokubas Ziburkus: [00:39:04] Is that correct to say it is one of the major homeostasis regulators? Yes, but it is not the only one.
Joy Beckerman: [00:39:12] It is. And just for the listeners and for me, I'm using you listeners. I'm using you all as an excuse. I'm literally just sucking all of this information in. Could you give us an example of one or two other regulators of homeostasis in addition to the endocannabinoid system?
Dr. Jokubas Ziburkus: [00:39:27] So I would say it's it's many systems that are intricately involved in building the overall homeostasis of the body.
Dr. Jokubas Ziburkus: [00:39:39] And it really involves many of these systems will have, again, the receptors, the control centers and the factors that affect the organs. And I mentioned just seriously, neuroendocrine system, there is a system that is controlling the stress response, and that is the system that if you have occasional stress, it produces cortisol. And it has also very much like a thermostat, like regulation. It's called negative feedback regulation, where it though, names down the amount of cortisol to its normal level. Now, if that stressor is persistent, right, then you get into a potential state of chronic stress and your cortisol levels are through the roof and they're not being controlled and not also very much interact with the information and the Indian state of the body. As we know, stress can affect a lot of things. So let's think about this over. Let's think about those boxes, the temperature control in the room, but it actually has several circuits in it. So one of the circuits is Kinabalu. It's just still another circuit is neuroendocrine system. And you could have another look, thermo regulation system involved in the have a sexual regulation system involved. And that is also part of the homeostasis. So I'm just, you know, not just one system that really interaction of many systems.
Joy Beckerman: [00:41:06] I cannot possibly be more grateful for all of this. And I'm pressing the oil out of the out of view here. And I understand that. But this isn't a question or an issue that Dr Russo feels strongly about. As you know, he's an industry leader as you are. And I was in Seattle for 21 years, and I'm actually on my way to move back there. And as you may know, Dr. Russo was from that area. So when you live in Seattle, you get the benefit of him being wonderful and keynoting events and doing, you know, small teaching presentations. So and it's wonderful to have him. And I usually and I've noticed you use the word psychoactive, where as Dr Russo has made a point, and I generally do as well, and I do a lot of reviewing of law and regulation. And I always try to redline this this issue because the word non psycho active seems to be applied to CBD in law and regulation in medical techs, so on and so forth. And Dr Russo would say, listen, it's not only psychoactive, I mean, it modulates mood centers and works with PTSD or depression. So obviously there's something like active psycho activity there. He says it's not only psychoactive, it's even psychotropic. But what CBD isn't is intoxicating. So I always try to tell people to use the term non intoxicating verses on psychoactive. Well, clearly, there were hairs being split there. And you're as brilliant as Dr Russo. What are your thoughts around splitting those hairs, using those terms?
Dr. Jokubas Ziburkus: [00:42:43] Yes, they need to be slurred. And this. Correct. That would say that cough is psychotropic. I wake up in the morning and coffee helps really glutamate receptors, it affects my neurotransmission of the brain. It has physiological neurophysiological, psychological effects on me, psycho psychoactive as well. Psychotropic. So caffeine in coffee is psychoactive. If you talk about CBD, psychoactive, because it's why is it used to control epilepsy and seizures in many different things that are related to neurological disorders? Coming up now and in the research, it is definitely psychoactive. I'm not so certain that there is a psychotropic activity of CBD or so, and there's definitely psychotropic activities to achieve tetrahydrocannabinol. But I see, you know, talking to not just the people Russo, but other practicing neurologists and other practicing doctors. That's what there's a bit of a split of opinion if maybe you start that the first time or a person to assume CBD may have a somewhat of an interesting psycho tropic effect. Well, just psychoactive side.
Dr. Jokubas Ziburkus: [00:44:07] And that is still a question. The reason why I say that, that is still a question, because there's never been a study done. The people are testing or trying CBD for the first time where they're using isolates CBD for they're using full spectrum that actually contains up to zero point three percent THC by federal regulation.
Dr. Jokubas Ziburkus: [00:44:29] So that that that zero point three percent THC in combination with CBD, maybe psychotropic, the hair needs to be split. Definitely. This is a psychoactive caffeine, psychoactive CBD, psychoactive THC is psychoactive and psychotropic and it can be intoxicated as well.
Joy Beckerman: [00:44:52] Thank you for scratching that itch so much, though, and I'll shoot you. No doubt this scene, it it came out probably about three or four years ago. Yeah, sure. It was in your field of awareness. I'll grab that little piece in. It was actually a piece that Dr Russo wrote a few years ago called I Think It Was A Myth Busting Myths about CBD where he discussed the psychotropic effect. And I'll have to go back in and refresh why it is that even considered that. And I'll shoot it your way and get it back into your field of awareness. But I can't even imagine being a fly on the wall when you incredible intellectual campaign get together and discuss these things.
Joy Beckerman: [00:45:32] But I can tell you that on another level altogether. Yes. How? After you're boiling, I guess I can.
Joy Beckerman: [00:45:42] I'll be looking forward to it 10 ways from Sunday. And I'm just so grateful that we got the benefit of of all of your expertize here today. I can't wait to have you back. You Jokubas Ziburkus. You are something else, brother. And if you want to know listeners how to look at the various products and projects that you corpuses involved in, please go to our website. MJ bowls, all of his links there available to you, you Coopers. Thank you so much for being with us today. Stay healthy, my brother. I cannot wait till we're gathering again. And we'll certainly have you back on Hemp Barons again.
Dr. Jokubas Ziburkus: [00:46:19] Thank you, Joy, so much. Thank you for what you do. It was a pleasure to have this conversation.
Dr. Jokubas Ziburkus: [00:46:25] Look forward to seeing you in the near future. Definitely being back on the podcast. It was my pleasure.
Joy Beckerman: [00:46:32] Thank you. Wishing you the greatest success, brother. Goodnight.
[00:46:47] I'm Larry Michigan. I'd like to invite you to join Jim Marty and me on our weekly podcast, the Deadhead Cannabis Show. Each week we explore the latest Cannabis and Jim then news to reminisce with other Cannabis industry, Deadheads and jam band aficionados. Lots of great musical acts. We've seen and heard. Check out a new episode every Monday at MJBulls stock from or wherever you listen to purchase.
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